Smashwords Succumbs to Censorship - Page 5

MrsJoseph · 02-26-2012, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teh603

I'll be honest, I actually use eBay from time to time, so I won't be getting rid of my own PayPal account. That, and I don't find this particular "censorship" issue that bad. FIAK, this is erotica that either skirts the law or is flat- out illegal in a lot of states, and both Smashwords and PayPal are justified in removing it. And its understandably illegal too; even most people into BDSM find the stuff in question distasteful.

If they were going after stuff like political tracts, even neo-nazi ones, I might be inclined to agree with most of you. But this isn't. This stuff can't even pass the infamous Lemon Test.

That's not true. There are some books that would be considered drivel to some...but none of the books are illegal. They're just books. And those authors have a fan base.

Personally, I have no real rage over "censorship" but I dislike the hypocritical actions that paypal is taking. I can't condone their actions...so I vote with my wallet.

Joykins · 02-26-2012, 07:05 PM

Well, I have never had or needed a paypal account and I still see no reason to do so. My husband does something with them, but he is pretty shocked at this now.

Catlady · 02-26-2012, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

My guess: Because when PayPal does, they try to force other businesses to follow their standards, and they bully them in the process of doing so. Smashwords can have certain standards and rules, but if they tried to force either Sony or B&N to comply by said standards before they were allowed to sell Smashwords books in their ebook stores, then Smashwords would be as wrong there as PayPal is here.

Setting your own moral standards is always fine. Forcing others to live by them without giving them a choice, is not.

What are laws but the imposition of moral standards? You are forced to obey the laws, aren't you, as long as they are legitimately enacted in a democratic society. Do you want to argue that anarchy is better?

ScalyFreak · 02-26-2012, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catlady

What are laws but the imposition of moral standards? You are forced to obey the laws, aren't you, as long as they are legitimately enacted in a democratic society. Do you want to argue that anarchy is better?

Laws and morals have nothing to do with one another. Laws are the rules society makes itself follow, in order to remain a functional society, and the moment moral principles are involved in that, disasters happen. That's why porn remains legal, and why the Prohibition was a monumental failure.

Laridae · 02-26-2012, 08:15 PM

My first reaction, like so many here, was to rail against PayPal's supposed "censorship".

But having read a little more about the specific things they objected to, I'm not so sure. They aren't setting the bar very high here - the stuff IS pretty disgusting. And as for Why they are doing this, maybe it's because they have Principles and Taste. Maybe they're doing us all a favour.

Perhaps PP should be Thanked for exerting some kind of last-ditch control in a laissez-faire, overly-permissive system where common sense and decency are sadly optional, and good taste is in a death-spiral with no floor!

Let's not be theoretical about this people. In the real world some stuff really is unacceptable! And absent any other adult in the room, PP is performing a function that really shouldn't be necessary in a civilized society.

PP is taking a stand, facing up to their critics, and risking losing business. Sounds like a highly principled company to me!

DiapDealer · 02-26-2012, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Maybe they're doing us all a favour.

In the immortal words of (hell I don't know who to attribute it to): "Don't do me no favors."

... and your first instinct is usually correct.

Quote:

PP is taking a stand, facing up to their critics, and risking losing business. Sounds like a highly principled company to me!

There's no principles involved here. PayPal is taking pressure that's being exerted on them by bigger fish and simply punting it to the next smaller fish in line.

Synamon · 02-26-2012, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laridae

Perhaps PP should be Thanked for exerting some kind of last-ditch control in a laissez-faire, overly-permissive system where common sense and decency are sadly optional, and good taste is in a death-spiral with no floor!

Bullshit. I can make my own choices, thanks very much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laridae

Let's not be theoretical about this people. In the real world some stuff really is unacceptable! And absent any other adult in the room, PP is performing a function that really shouldn't be necessary in a civilized society.

Their function is to move money, period.

Paypal can do what they want, Smashwords can as well. So can I. Reading your post made me feel ill and after I post this I'm delinking my credit card and abandoning PayPal.

QuantumIguana · 02-26-2012, 08:26 PM

Finding something distasteful is no reason to ban it. People should be able to read whatever they want to. There's nothing theoretical about it. The surest antidote to censorship of what you want to read is to prevent any books from being censored.

Calling society permissive implies that permission is being granted, rather than freedom being exercised. I reject that paternalism. There's nothing principled about censorship.

MrsJoseph · 02-26-2012, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laridae

My first reaction, like so many here, was to rail against PayPal's supposed "censorship".

But having read a little more about the specific things they objected to, I'm not so sure. They aren't setting the bar very high here - the stuff IS pretty disgusting. And as for Why they are doing this, maybe it's because they have Principles and Taste. Maybe they're doing us all a favour.

Perhaps PP should be Thanked for exerting some kind of last-ditch control in a laissez-faire, overly-permissive system where common sense and decency are sadly optional, and good taste is in a death-spiral with no floor!

Let's not be theoretical about this people. In the real world some stuff really is unacceptable! And absent any other adult in the room, PP is performing a function that really shouldn't be necessary in a civilized society.

PP is taking a stand, facing up to their critics, and risking losing business. Sounds like a highly principled company to me!

Please. I'm an adult. I don't need some faceless company making decisions for me.

It's perfectly acceptable for me not to get involved in other people's lives trying to tell them what to read. It's ridiculous and hypocritical.

MrsJoseph · 02-26-2012, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

Finding something distasteful is no reason to ban it. People should be able to read whatever they want to. There's nothing theoretical about it. The surest antidote to censorship of what you want to read is to prevent any books from being censored.

Calling society permissive implies that permission is being granted, rather than freedom being exercised. I reject that paternalism. There's nothing principled about censorship.

Agreed!

+1

Blossom · 02-26-2012, 09:04 PM

Paypal has always been this way. Years ago they contacted Sim 2 gaming sites that had adult content and told them they were to remove the adult content if they wish to receive donations from members. They also put a stop to buying site memberships that had adult content. Paypal always has had a strong stand against this sort of thing.

I am not surprise by this move at all. I knew it was only a matter of time before they realized the type of ebooks being sold on digital publishers sites. I have noticed they have become more tolerant than they were in the old days. In the old days they would of made all erotica and maybe even some of the more steamier romances removed. This is just how they've always been.

DiapDealer · 02-26-2012, 09:07 PM

So you're saying they've always sucked?

Blossom · 02-26-2012, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

So you're saying they've always sucked?

I'm saying they always been very conservative. However anyone can set up shop using paypal there is no approval process. It's once Paypal investigates you that you better be behaving or they will freeze your account.

sabredog · 02-26-2012, 09:21 PM

What makes this really hypocritical is that there are dodgy deals passing through Paypal on a daily basis, without hinderance.

Perhaps Paypal need to get their own house in order BEFORE attempting to enforce cleaning of someone elses..

vxf · 02-26-2012, 09:44 PM

As a very generic point... for those saying that any company has - or should have - the right to choose whom to do business with... do you even remember all the establishments not accepting non-whites? The hotels refusing homosexual couples? Or, further back in time, unmarried couples?

Businesses are NOT unrestricted in choosing whom to do business with, nor should they be.

Regarding products... it's a very slippery slope as well. There are stores here in Oklahoma refusing to sell contraceptives. Gas stations that won't sell rolling papers. Where do you draw the line?

In my mind, any restriction to freedom is detrimental - to me, to society. I might accept arguments about being forced to supply a particular service - as above, contraceptives, tobacco, alcohol, etc. But here we are talking about something completely different - HINDERING someone else's ability to engage in a LEGAL transaction.

I don't know where the legality of the issue lays. But Paypal is certainly on my black list.

02-26-2012, 08:15 PM	#65
Laridae Addict Posts: 208 Karma: 1203096 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ontario, Canada Device: Nexus 7, Blackberry PlayBook, Nexus 4, ChromeBook	Thank you PayPal! My first reaction, like so many here, was to rail against PayPal's supposed "censorship". But having read a little more about the specific things they objected to, I'm not so sure. They aren't setting the bar very high here - the stuff IS pretty disgusting. And as for Why they are doing this, maybe it's because they have Principles and Taste. Maybe they're doing us all a favour. Perhaps PP should be Thanked for exerting some kind of last-ditch control in a laissez-faire, overly-permissive system where common sense and decency are sadly optional, and good taste is in a death-spiral with no floor! Let's not be theoretical about this people. In the real world some stuff really is unacceptable! And absent any other adult in the room, PP is performing a function that really shouldn't be necessary in a civilized society. PP is taking a stand, facing up to their critics, and risking losing business. Sounds like a highly principled company to me!

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02-26-2012, 07:05 PM	#62
Joykins Wizard Posts: 1,609 Karma: 9211856 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: kindle Oasis 2018, kindle 4 NT, kindle PW2, iPhone, iPad mini	Well, I have never had or needed a paypal account and I still see no reason to do so. My husband does something with them, but he is pretty shocked at this now.

02-26-2012, 08:26 PM	#68
QuantumIguana Philosopher Posts: 2,034 Karma: 18736532 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch	Finding something distasteful is no reason to ban it. People should be able to read whatever they want to. There's nothing theoretical about it. The surest antidote to censorship of what you want to read is to prevent any books from being censored. Calling society permissive implies that permission is being granted, rather than freedom being exercised. I reject that paternalism. There's nothing principled about censorship.

02-26-2012, 09:04 PM	#71
Blossom Treasure Seeker Posts: 18,708 Karma: 26026435 Join Date: Mar 2010 Device: Kobo HD Glo, Kindles, Kindle Fires, Andriod Devices	Paypal has always been this way. Years ago they contacted Sim 2 gaming sites that had adult content and told them they were to remove the adult content if they wish to receive donations from members. They also put a stop to buying site memberships that had adult content. Paypal always has had a strong stand against this sort of thing. I am not surprise by this move at all. I knew it was only a matter of time before they realized the type of ebooks being sold on digital publishers sites. I have noticed they have become more tolerant than they were in the old days. In the old days they would of made all erotica and maybe even some of the more steamier romances removed. This is just how they've always been.

02-26-2012, 09:07 PM	#72
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,423 Karma: 203720150 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	So you're saying they've always sucked?

02-26-2012, 09:21 PM	#74
sabredog Geographically Restricted Posts: 2,629 Karma: 14933353 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Device: Sony PRS-T3, Kindle Voyage, iPad Air2, Nexus7v2	What makes this really hypocritical is that there are dodgy deals passing through Paypal on a daily basis, without hinderance. Perhaps Paypal need to get their own house in order BEFORE attempting to enforce cleaning of someone elses..

02-26-2012, 09:44 PM	#75
vxf Guru Posts: 944 Karma: 1490348 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Norman, OK Device: Sony PRS 350, 900, 950; Kindles (ALL of them!); Kobo Aura One	As a very generic point... for those saying that any company has - or should have - the right to choose whom to do business with... do you even remember all the establishments not accepting non-whites? The hotels refusing homosexual couples? Or, further back in time, unmarried couples? Businesses are NOT unrestricted in choosing whom to do business with, nor should they be. Regarding products... it's a very slippery slope as well. There are stores here in Oklahoma refusing to sell contraceptives. Gas stations that won't sell rolling papers. Where do you draw the line? In my mind, any restriction to freedom is detrimental - to me, to society. I might accept arguments about being forced to supply a particular service - as above, contraceptives, tobacco, alcohol, etc. But here we are talking about something completely different - HINDERING someone else's ability to engage in a LEGAL transaction. I don't know where the legality of the issue lays. But Paypal is certainly on my black list.