Smashwords Succumbs to Censorship

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by BeccaPrice

DearAuthor has been having a good discussion of this - apparently it's less related to censorship tha the high rate of chargbacks on porn which lose the company money. From what I understand, credit cards charge porn sites highter rates to make up for such losses.

Must not be all porn since there is all kinds of Adult stuff sold on eBay that uses PayPal for payment, not to mention sites like Adam & Eve use it. Sounds like it's specifically Rape, Incest, Pedophilia and Beastiality that are the problem and it has a lot to do with the banks PayPal does business with having some pretty unbreakable rules about it.


Here's a quote from Mark Coker of what PayPal told him word for word (from todays Dear Author post comments section)...

“We work with a number of acquiring banks and credit card associations as part of our business. Many of the items contained in our AUP are restricted by our banking partners, particularly rape, bestiality and incest related content. Our banking partners and credit card associations have taken a very strict stance on this subject matter. Our relationships with the banking partners are absolutely critical in order to provide the online and mobile services we do to our customers. Therefore, we have to remain in compliance with their rules, which prohibit content involving rape, bestiality or incest.”

[AnnaJMcIntyre]

It is a little more sinister than a business simply having the right to choose who they want to do business with.

Initially, Paypal agreed to do business with a number of sites similar to Smashwords, and it was never a secret that erotica was being sold along with the other ebooks.

Reportedly,Paypal came in fairly quickly and demanded Smashwords comply with their terms, or they would shut them down. They gave their clients very little time to comply – hardly enough to set up a new payment system.

Paypal has a history of claiming client funds in situations like this, and destroying companies.

While I think Smashwords was foolish to set up their business using Paypal, considering Paypal’s history with such shenanigans, there is speculation that the real motivation was not moral outrage, but the fact there is a higher percentage of charge backs with these types of purchases.

Corporate censorship may be legal, but it is just as scary as govt censorship – maybe more so. Already corporations are major players in choosing our presidential candidates. Now they can tell us what we can buy and what we can read.

How would you feel if you had your Paypal account frozen because you purchased a legal ebook from a site initially approved by Paypal, but then Paypal deems the book does not meet its moral standards, so they freeze your account? Maybe you wouldn’t care, but if you were like many people who work online, and are forced to use Paypal to receive payment, it could really hurt you financially. Do you really feel comfortable giving a corporation that much power over your life? (I've read this has happened)

The books they are banning are LEGAL books. Maybe you don’t want to read a story about two adult step-siblings, who end up having sex, but other people might want to, and it is their right. Perhaps it doesn’t touch you now, but what happens when you are no longer able to buy the books you like, because Paypal tells booksellers they can’t sell it, and there are no other payment methods because Paypal is so big, unique, and there isn’t another practical business option.

[RainingLemur]

While I don't necessarily like what PayPal is doing in this situation...I can't really say much else about it. They're running their business how they want to. That type of fiction doesn't interest me really, but I hope the authors of those works are able to find another place to sell their books.

[bgalbrecht]

So does this mean than Smashwords will have to crack down on all that paranormal romance involving werewolves? And did Paypal send similar letters to Amazon and B&N, since they sell some or all Smashword titles? When I click through the Amazon free ebook list at eReaderIQ.com, I notice a fair number of erotica stories had mommy/daddy/daughter in the title, which I assume indicate they are violating Paypal's incest policy.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

When I first saw the title of this thread, I assumed that Snashwords was refusing to sell certain types of literature they found offensive and I thought, well—so what? They are an independent business, and have the right to determine what they sell. Then I read the article and realized thus wasn't about self-censorship at all, but about a major financial institution (PayPal) attempting to impose their moral standards upon an independent bookseller. This is outrageous.

Why are you outraged? Don't PayPal equally have the right to choose who they do business with? I don't agree with their decision, but I believe it's a decision they have a right to make.

[crossi]

Well I'm outraged enough that I will no longer use paypal. Even though I don't purchase erotica.

[crossi]

I don't see why Smashwords can't set up a payment system where the only thing Paypal sees is the recipient of the money with the authors having account names different from the names on the book and no indication what the purchase is for. just a transaction number for x amount.

[Pablo]

Smashwords had two options: get rid of paypal and set up its own CC processing system or continue with Paypal and submit to this and future whims. Unfortunately they decided to submit.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by crossi

I don't see why Smashwords can't set up a payment system where the only thing Paypal sees is the recipient of the money with the authors having account names different from the names on the book and no indication what the purchase is for. just a transaction number for x amount.

And that's pretty much what some other bookstores do. When I buy books at Baen and pay with PayPal, the PayPal transaction just says "Baen Publishing" - it doesn't say what it is that I've bought.

I don't think that's the issue here, though. PayPal are objecting to the actual content, not what it says on the transaction. Perhaps, though, people who enjoy their rape, incest, and bestiality books could be offered an alternate payment method for it.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Interesting that this should come up just after the death of Barney Rosset. He is, as some of you must know, the man who went to court to publish that obscene book by D.H. Lawrence and was taken there for publishing Henry Miller. He also published Samuel Beckett, James Joyce, William Burroughs, and others considered coarse in their day, along with the authors of numerous erotic novels in the Evergreen Series -- many of which are no longer relegated to mere erotica status.

Well into his old age, Rosset published the Evergreen Review and erotic novels under the Blue Moon Books imprint, championing erotica as literature in the name of free speech. Certain of those works he published -- once denounced as pornography -- are now considered classics.

The question is not whether Paypal is technically within its rights. It is whether a transaction processing company that blackmails a bookstore WRT content deserves our future business. If we choose to vote yes with our credit cards, then a time might come when controversial books won't be widely sold to us at all. The fewer the restrictions on literary content, the better for all of us.

This is true whether the restrictions are enforced by governments or monopolies.

[CommonReader]

Originally Posted by teh603

I think they use it because it allows fast, secure deposits and withdrawals without the risk of a paycheck getting lost or stolen from the mail. No other credit card handler that I know of is capable of handling paychecks the way PayPal is.

As for PayPal, its all contract law. There's no spirit to contract law, only letter. PayPal has a habit of refusing to do business with "adult content" stuff, so I'm surprised that Smashwords is even capable of processing erotica if PayPal is their credit card handler. PayPal is insanely conservative when it comes to stuff like that.

All that having been said; besti, incest, and pseudo-loli/shota are both things most people find highly disgusting and I'd consider niche market at best. They might even be illegal in some more conservative states. Smashwords rejecting them is highly understandable, and I'm not going to complain about this. Call it censorship if you want, but a niche market is a niche market.

Well, I don't live in the US so I don't know what sort of special advantages PayPal offers to its customers. Its European subsidiary - which is set up in Luxembourg - has a well known history for the opaque handling of customer complaints.
Anyway, it does require a license for providing financial services. If a bank here in Germany refused to conduct a money transfer just because it dislikes the recipient's (legal) product range, then the supervisory authorities would come down on that bank like a ton of bricks. I am always surprised how accepting many readers in the US are when large companies throw their weight around like this. For anyone at the receiving end of such treatment it can be as bad as traditional oppression by government agencies.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by carpetmojo

Could anyone tell me, should any company like this choose to do so, could they legally, under US law, lay down similar restrictions on copies of, say, the Koran ? Or the Bible ?
Or would that fall foul of religious freedom statutes, freedom of speech, etc... ?

Yes, a private company could do that unless there were a specific law to the contrary, which, as far as I know, there isn't.

Although Americans like to talk about their "constitutional right" to do xyz, the reality is that the constitution is a set of restrictions on what government can do. First amendment rights are rights that protect the citizen from the government, not the citizen from another citizen.

[teh603]

Originally Posted by bgalbrecht

So does this mean than Smashwords will have to crack down on all that paranormal romance involving werewolves?

Tell me, do werewolves have sex in wolf form or human form? And do you actually "have the lights on" when they're doing it?

Originally Posted by CommonReader

Well, I don't live in the US so I don't know what sort of special advantages PayPal offers to its customers. Its European subsidiary - which is set up in Luxembourg - has a well known history for the opaque handling of customer complaints.
Anyway, it does require a license for providing financial services. If a bank here in Germany refused to conduct a money transfer just because it dislikes the recipient's (legal) product range, then the supervisory authorities would come down on that bank like a ton of bricks. I am always surprised how accepting many readers in the US are when large companies throw their weight around like this. For anyone at the receiving end of such treatment it can be as bad as traditional oppression by government agencies.

You're right, you're definitely not in the US. If the government was to start looking over the banks' shoulders like that, someone would scream "communism" and "socialism" very quick and force the government to back down. We're only an election or two away from Jane Government, or possibly something far worse.

We've also got a very long history of imperialistic puritan christianity. Its not much different from how the Islamists will try to take over revolutions in the Middle East; both are greeted with thunderous applause when they take over an area. It isn't until people realize the civil liberties they've lost that the awful truth sets in. I would know because my state is in the middle of such a takeover. Its been slow, but its happened nontheless.

The above having been said, I'm still not complaining about the loss of besti, rape, and pseudo- loli/shota.I still find it disgusting.

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Wait. Smashwords is allowed to refuse to do business according to its own set of standards, but PayPal isn't?

LOL Good point Catlady.

Two of the three subject matters are illegal most likely everywhere, and the third is just icky!

Businesses pull this kind of stuff all of the time, so do most jobs there are rules in place for a variety of things they if they found us doing them would lead to termination.

I have no doubt that these authors will find other venues for their work.

Paypal is correct in not risking the majority of their business for three questionable subject.

They are not going after main stream Paranormal/erotica/romance just the illegal ones.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Two of the three subject matters are illegal most likely everywhere, and the third is just icky!

But writing fictionalised accounts of illegal acts is not illegal. Otherwise, crime writers would be in big trouble.