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#31 |
eBook Enthusiast
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You have to face the fact that, unless you propose to "nationalize" drugs companies, and let the taxpayer pay for R&D, then new drugs are not going to exist unless the manufacturer can make money from them. Developing a new drug takes many years, and 95% of them don't reach the market. Unless the manufacturer can recoup the cost of those 19 failed drugs through sales of the one successful one, then that enormously expensive R&D isn't going to happen!
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#32 | |
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#33 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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#34 |
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I agree that a lot of the research is done in universities, but it's still funded by companies like AstroZeneca and GlaxoSmithKline. My basic argument does, I believe, still hold. No profit from sales of the rare successful drug inevitably leads to fewer (or, if we take it to its logical conclusion, no) new drugs. The companies need to make billions from the drugs which do work to pay for all the ones which don't.
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#35 |
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The third world will not be a significant player in the free market game for a looooong time. As such they will not be able to play according to succesfully play the free market game for a looooong time, which also means that they won't be able to buy those western medicines for a loooooong time. Really according to the whole free market theory, why would somebody ever sell to the third world. There really is hardly any possibility to make any money from Africa.
I'm frankly appalled at the whole "let them die, if they can't pay" sentiment on display in this thread. I can deal with the whole anti file sharing sentiment that bows down to the billions dollar digital content industry instead of the common good, but seriously this I can't stomach. People are dying by the thousands in Africa. And since there is no money to be made from Africa anyway, why should they not get the medicine for a fair price? Capitalism and the free market isn't infallible. Intellectual property isn't some dogma that needs to be upheld even when it means the death of thousands of people that can't play along in the game of capitalism. This is why I don't believe in intellectual property. It's not just a stupid concept that the rich invented not so long ago, it is also a concept that kills people. |
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#36 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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It wasn't until years later, when the unions won fair treatment for its members, that the system could be said to be "good for everybody," IMO. Pirates didn't accomplish that. Organization did. Argue what you want about the Pirates... but their ultimate lack of appreciation for the creator and their efforts, and their right to be compensated for those efforts, is just plain sad. |
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#37 |
Grand Sorcerer
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Pieter, a loooong time is 20 years (max). Remember patent is limited to 20 years (much of which is burned up the the drug testing process). Once the 20 years are up, the third world can produce all the drug it wants, without paying big pharma.
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#38 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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Steve, even in the 1920' and 30's, when the talent was being shafted the hardest, they were still making 2-10 times what equivalent labor was making elsewhere in other industries (and i'm talking about the "little people" working behind the scenes.) |
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#39 | ||
Grand Sorcerer
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This isn't a fault of Intellectual Property, or the Free Market system. This is the fault of politicians and the public refusing to help in anything but token amounts. Quote:
So don't blame IP for Africa's troubles... blame the indifference of the rest of the world. |
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#40 |
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Tell the millions of people in Africa that have Aids that a looooong time will be max 20 years. For them it might as well be 200 years, because they will be just as dead then.
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#41 | |
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And, yes, I blame the indifference. Very much so. But Intellectual Property effectively is the tool that gets wielded by this indifference. Basically you're saying Intellectual Property can be worked around if only we (me and my government) pay. How about this company's indifference? Hiding behind some mantra "sorry, it's intellectual property, that's just how it works, kid.". THAT is indifference. Let's give THIS indifference less tools to work with, by not taking this new invention of intellectual property serious. It's not that long ago the US didn't take it serious btw. But I guess in those days it was not in it's best own interests to take it serious. I'll repeat. People are dying right now, because intellectual property getting wielded with indifference. |
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#42 |
Grand Sorcerer
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I'm frankly skeptical (If that were true, why would you unionize in the first place?), but I won't belabor the point. I will say that William Fox's move to Hollywood to escape Edison had nothing to do with altruistic motives of "making things better for everybody"... it was all about making more money for Fox.
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#43 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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<Sigh>. The answer to AIDS in Africa is cultural, not drugs. As long as the current sexual mores in Africa remain unchanged, the epidemic will never die out. Look at what's been done to control AIDS in Thailand. Currently, drugs are just pallitives, they don't <cure> the disease. Eventually, you get drug resistant strains, and the drugs become worthless. When that happens, the patient starts passing around the resistant strain. (The same problem occurs with malaria, and bacterial antibiotics.) Finally, if the rich patent world stops making new drugs, because there is no profit in it, then you'll be back to square one in 15 to 20 years, with no effective drugs left. |
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#44 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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#45 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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Charities get started by people who see a need in one place, a product or service in another that can be applied to that need, and making the effort to connect them through its own channels, including private and public support. In the absence of governments or other organizations, charities step in to satisfy that need. Charities and other organizations are already doing exactly this. Any ineffectiveness on their part is largely due to a lack of private and public support, not on any effort by businesses to stifle their efforts. So don't blame businesses for not giving their products away to Africa. Blame you, and me, and everyone else, for not buying those drugs ourselves and sending them, or convincing our governments and charities to buy and send them. It does matter whose fault it is. Blame us for ignoring Africa... not IP. |
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