Penguin ends library/Overdrive relationship starting tomorrow

[spindlegirl]

I don't have a Kindle either so I cannot relate to that issue. But I am sorry for how it is affecting them.

Every Christmas and Birthday I am a heavy purchaser from amazon.ca, though, for books and cds.

If I spend over 25 dollars shipping is free, the prices are insanely low compared to the in-person prices, and I hate hate hate in person shopping! I buy boring classic clothes and wear them until they wear out, (I "glam up" with hand knit accessories) and if I didn't have to feed my family, the only place a person would see me is church

[tubemonkey]

I don't care how far these publishers go. My response to them is to quit buying their products.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I don't care how far these publishers go. My response to them is to quit buying their products.

In the end, that is all they listen to.

[John F]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

Maybe not discussed there but here it is mentioned again:

Thanks for the link. I can see why Penguin would be upset with Overdrive (and Amazon), but why take it out on us. Why not offer the books in EPub only until this gets worked out?

From the article:

... As one publisher noted, the entire library digital supply chain and security procedures emerged without publishers having an active role in how it is constructed, managed and governed. Starting over--as quickly as can be implemented--is one way of rebuilding a better process that supports libraries' important role in serving the public while protecting the interests of creators and publishers. ...

You've had what, >10 years to iron this out, and your approach now is let's start over?

[azazel1024]

Yeah for me the library exists for one important reason, try out new authors or series by authors I like, but am dubious about (Well, he is a sci fi author, a mystery series? Really?). If I can try out a book or two by a new author or in the author's series that I haven't tried and I like it, I have no issues buying other books by them. However, I refuse to pay money for a book that is a complete unknown quatity. Through library lending at least the publisher and author at least get some small indirect cut of money from me by allowing me to borrow it (get enough people borrowing it and the library is likely to buy more licenses to lend the book). Also if I like the new author/series the publisher/author is going to see a lot more money from me as I buy other titles by the author or in the series.

Otherwise I will either attempt to find alternate means of access to the book or I just won't bother reading any titles by the author or in the series and thus I am not getting/buying any books by that author. No revenue.

There are plenty of times I have borrowed books and also wanted my own copy. Occasionally I read something where I go "well, that was a good book, but I don't think I'll ever care to read that again". I think of my personal library of about 300 odd titles I've read at least 90% of them at least twice, at least 75% of them at least 3 times and probably more than a third of them at least 4 times.

[ucfgrad93]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

In the end, that is all they listen to.

Money talks and ******** walks.

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by Synamon

You may be pissed at Amazon, but why would Penguin care? Won't Amazon will be sending out emails offering to sell Penguin books to people who are borrowing Penguin books for their Kindles?

Amazon is a retailer of Penguin books but it is also a competitor with Penguin in that Amazon publishes its own books, and Penguin is rightly afraid of Amazon's market dominance.

Interestingly enough, if you click to buy a book from an Overdrive listing, it sends you to a menu of Overdrives "retail partners" you can select from for the purchase (these are Amazon, B&N, and various indies as applicable). I assume Overdrive takes their affiliate commission from that. I don't know if they get their commission if Amazon solicits your purchase after the loan.

It may have seemed expedient to Overdrive at the time to piggyback Kindle lending off Amazon lending DRM and servers, but that decision appears to have come back to bite them.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Joykins

Amazon is a retailer of Penguin books but it is also a competitor with Penguin in that Amazon publishes its own books, and Penguin is rightly afraid of Amazon's market dominance.

Interestingly enough, if you click to buy a book from an Overdrive listing, it sends you to a menu of Overdrives "retail partners" you can select from for the purchase (these are Amazon, B&N, and various indies as applicable). I assume Overdrive takes their affiliate commission from that. I don't know if they get their commission if Amazon solicits your purchase after the loan.

It may have seemed expedient to Overdrive at the time to piggyback Kindle lending off Amazon lending DRM and servers, but that decision appears to have come back to bite them.

Honestly I think Penguin is using Amazon as an excuse. They don't like the way the program is working out (no recurring revenue in any format), it's probably cutting into sales of their best sellers and on top of that it might give Amazon an edge with some data.

I just came across another company that is just getting its foot in the door with libraries. Am investigating how popular it is so far and where it's available. Will report back when/if I figure it out...

[CazMar]

I used to buy a lot of Penguin Books. Then they refused to sell their books in digital format in Australia. Now I can only buy Australian authors, not even out of copyright overseas authors. I stopped buying Penguin books about 12 months ago. A pity - they have a backlist of academic/non-fiction books that must run into tens of thousands. Now I buy them from 2nd hand bookstores. Sorry Penguin,you have lost me completely. You can join the ranks of all the other failed businesses that tried to turn back progress. It didn't work for them either.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by CazMar

Now I buy them from 2nd hand bookstores. Sorry Penguin,you have lost me completely.

Not as I see it. Used sales provide price support for the new product, just like with cars.

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

In the end, that is all they listen to.

That, and the stock price. I believe Penguin's parent, Pearson, is trading near a ten year high.

As a heavy library user and extremely light book-buyer, public library eBooks are very much in my interest. I used to go from library to library, in my metro area, to find books I would like. Now I do the same, right at the computer where I am writing this, by having library cards for multiple counties. Great for me. But that doesn't mean it makes sense for publishers to allow this.

There must be a lot of people whose book acquisition method will vary depending on the relative convenience of library borrowing. With paper books, you need to go to the library twice -- once to borrow, once to return -- making library borrowing a lot less convenient than a single trip to a bookstore. Another inconvenience is having to pay library fines, something that never happens with Overdrive. Overdrive is so convenient that, even if I had previously bought books, I would do so no longer.

Ebooks disrupt the whole system where publishers could gets lots of revenue from people for whom money is less important than convenience, and then get a little library revenue by servicing those to whom price is more important than convenience.

I love libraries. I just don't understand how they are going to make sense in a digital world.

[Joykins]

Publishers, if you make it impossible for young people–those in the “under 25″ category–to support a good reading habit on their own dime, these people are not going to start magically spending money on books when they start making a decent income. No; at that point, they’ll already have started spending their time haunting hulu instead, where they can actually get free entertainment. And when they start making money, they’ll be buying iTunes streams of those shows they watched for free.
...
Libraries are the future of reading. When the economy is down, we need to make it easier for people to buy and read books for free, not harder. It is stupid to sacrifice tomorrow’s book buyers for today’s dollars, especially when it’s obvious that the source in question doesn’t have any more dollars to give you.

http://www.courtneymilan.com/ramblin...our-seed-corn/

[Barty]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

In the end, that is all they listen to.

The problem with silent boycott is they won't hear your message.

You: I don't like your policy so I just won't buy your stuff anymore.

They: people aren't buying our stuff any more because of the ##*% pirates. We need more laws!!

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by Barty

The problem with silent boycott is they won't hear your message.

You: I don't like your policy so I just won't buy your stuff anymore.

They: people aren't buying our stuff any more because of the ##*% pirates. We need more laws!!

They blame piracy anyway, rather than a) cruddy products or b) unreachable prices.

But no, they don't see the people who scour bookstores, pick up a book, look at the price (especially the "Canadian price") and just walk away. Or who thumb through the first few chapters and think, nah, not for me.

They go for numbers they can point at, like the number of seeders for their title on some stupid site.

[LuvReadin]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

Authors who write superior quality stuff that people will be addicted to don't have to worry about the people who read it for free at the library. Write good stuff, and when people can afford it or get a birthday/christmas gift asking occasion, will eventually buy the book!

And remember, as andym said, the authors do get paid for books borrowed from the library - at least, they do in the UK, via the Public Lending Right agency. They get 6.05p for every loan, and the more popular authors make quite a decent income from this. I assume they won't get this via Amazon.

Originally Posted by andym

IBut there must be easier ways of preventing this - limiting the number of books you can borrow in a week (say) or using Social-DRM technology to imprint the borrower's name on every page. etc etc

Should be easy enough to implement - my library restricts borrowing to 3 books at a time. I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to restrict them to say 15/week.

[dkperez]

>And, (I have no idea whether it's Overdrive or publishers doing) the prices
>for ebooks is significantly HIGHER than the library pays for hard cover books.

>I doubt it's the publishers; again, referring to the already established model
>for journals, there's usually at least a 10% discount for anyone choosing to
>take an e-version only, even though these are also produced as print >versions.

Does anyone have real numbers on the way ebooks are being priced to libraries? In conversation, I was cited one instance by a librarian where a hard cover book was $24 while the corresponding ebook was $85. I can't say with certainty that it was Overdrive pocketing the extra 350 percent, but I find it difficult to believe.

As far as the "you can only lend the ebook 26 times before paying again", again in conversation with the librarians, I was told they have books that were well bound and have been leant over 200 times and are still in very good condition. On the other hand, the most recent Harry Potter was apparently so poorly constructed that it did, indeed, fall apart within 30 loans. I also presume the reading demographic may have been very different between the two books, causing much of the additional damage to poor Harry!

Like some others here, I'm a heavy library user. Primarily because I read for pleasure (when I'm not having to wade through some computer or photography text), and go through 3 - 4 books per week. I often try a new, questionable author's first book in a series at the library, and if it like it, I buy thereafter. Did it with Patricia Cornwell, Jonathon Kellerman, James Patterson, and on and on. With the current actions by the publishers, I've changed my purchasing habits a lot, and I'm buying far more discount books, finding free books, and using MR to find freebies and ESPECIALLY using the library to reserve books on paper instead of buying them. I don't care if I'm number 207 of 250 waiting, I'll wait six months instead of purchasing the book.

So, they may not care, but the actions of these publishers is saving me several thousand dollars per year. And lightening their bottom line by an equivalent amount.