Penguin ends library/Overdrive relationship starting tomorrow

[spindlegirl]

In a way I agree with tubemonkey above.

I highly doubt getting thousands of angry letters is going to make a dent.

The reason is, publishers don't care.

If they are so freaked that their words are going to be previewed in a library, and patrons are only going to buy the books they ACTUALLY LIKE, then tough cookies for them. Paper books can be bought second hand and that is how I'll buy them then.

[spindlegirl]

This does remind me of the authors or publishers who were kind of in an uproar about bookcrossing. The idea of bookcrossing is you find a book, read a book, pass it on. (physical books, that is).

I don't think authors understand or trust the power of word of mouth advertising. I've loaned books to my own daughter who has said, "Oh I want to buy this book!" when she was finished reading it. I said to her, "why do you want to buy it, you can use this one as long as you like!" Nope, she wanted her OWN copy.

That is how it is for me with libraries and with bookcrossing... I used to really love reading books that people would throw into the pile, but some of them I wanted forEVER, so I bought them. People have credited me with getting them addicted to certain authors they hadn't known existed.

Libraries allow me to concentrate my buying habits to what I actually know I like. This is just me, I am just one person, but that's how I function when it comes to anything like books, music, movies, etc... one exposure and I am hooked if it is actually my cup of tea.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

There's nothing wrong with publishers refusing to sell ebooks to libraries. Writing them to voice your displeasure is a waste of time unless you back it up by boycotting all of their imprints and all of their authors.

In the exact same way, there is nothing wrong with society deciding that government enforced monopolies on entertaining stories are an extravegant luxury which is long past its expiration date.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

If they are so freaked that their words are going to be previewed in a library, and patrons are only going to buy the books they ACTUALLY LIKE, then tough cookies for them. Paper books can be bought second hand and that is how I'll buy them then.

I don't think that they are freaked out that their works are going to be "previewed" in a library. I think that they are freaked out that people are going to "read" their books in a library, and then not buy the book.

Which, honestly, is a reasonable fear. I tend not to buy books I've read in the library; that's kind of the point.

[LuvReadin]

Originally Posted by RDaneel54

Are they idiots?

No, just run by the bean-counters rather than people who got into publishing because they wanted to, and worked their way up.

Originally Posted by RDaneel54

I'm not thrilled with the amount of editing and proofing errors in the big six e-books. I know the reasons, I just can't imagine why anyone would deliberately sell crap and think customers will keep flocking to their doors.

The only real reason for this is that the bean-counters can get a non-native speaker (or a computer programmer) to 'edit/proofread' for far less than a native speaker. They know nothing about editing or proofreading, and care less - all that matters is that it looks good on the balance sheet. The one good thing about this situation is that most readers (who once would probably have given little thought to this) now see how vital editing and proofreading are, and how annoying the lack of them can be. It's something I'm noticing more and more of in Amazon reviews (and not for self-published books either!), basically boiling down to 'great book, but it needed an editor'.

Originally Posted by BWinmill

M Even though their needs are different, they are working under the same laws and university libraries have been dealing with electronic books and periodicals on a large scale for a much longer time. Some of the problems that public libraries are facing now sound very similar to the problems that university libraries were facing 15 years ago.

You're quite right. Academic journals have been available for years as online-only versions, through the publishers, the university libraries, and even mainstream libraries. I'm not entirely sure why it seems to be so difficult to use the same model (and indeed software) for fiction books.

Originally Posted by dkperez

And, (I have no idea whether it's Overdrive or publishers doing) the prices for ebooks is significantly HIGHER than the library pays for hard cover books.

I doubt it's the publishers; again, referring to the already established model for journals, there's usually at least a 10% discount for anyone choosing to take an e-version only, even though these are also produced as print versions.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

I don't think that they are freaked out that their works are going to be "previewed" in a library. I think that they are freaked out that people are going to "read" their books in a library, and then not buy the book.

There have been many times where I have done that. However, there are many times where I've read the book, couldn't afford it yet, put it on my wish list, and while waiting for funds to come in handy, have raved about it to someone who has money to buy a book of their own, and that has resulted in a "sale".

By reading a book and raving about it, I have basically handed out a service that a publisher did not have to pay for. Advertising budgeting.

Sometimes even saying "oh yuk I hated this book" to someone with a higher income who has different taste in me has resulted in said person buying the book because they know they will like it.

I don't have to even be the actual buyer to benefit an author. If I don't have the money, I don't have the money. But somebody clearly has money to buy a book hence the term Best Seller. Somebody is buying the books.

The minority of people who are accustomed to waiting in line for their hold to come in (either in ebook or paper book) and then temporarily reading a book are hardly doing authors any damage.

[RDaneel54]

Originally Posted by LuvReadin

The only real reason for this is that the bean-counters can get a non-native speaker (or a computer programmer) to 'edit/proofread' for far less than a native speaker. They know nothing about editing or proofreading, and care less - all that matters is that it looks good on the balance sheet. The one good thing about this situation is that most readers (who once would probably have given little thought to this) now see how vital editing and proofreading are, and how annoying the lack of them can be. It's something I'm noticing more and more of in Amazon reviews (and not for self-published books either!), basically boiling down to 'great book, but it needed an editor'.

I probably notice it so much (and not just recently) because I have written textbooks/workbooks for the classes I taught. I had high standards, as did our editor and publication staff. I got really irked when I had to apologize to a classroom of students for a grammatical or spelling mistake in the final product. Ditto for web-based classes. Embarassing and usually not my fault (I made my share of mistakes though).

So what I'm saying is that I expect a good product whether it's a DTB or an ebook. It is my money I'm spending after all. It makes no sense to have good authors, high quality printers and good distribution if the book itself causes the customer to think, "what the heck is this author trying to say?"

[MrsJoseph]

I feel two ways about this new kerfluffle:

1 - I am PISSED at AMAZON for inserting itself into my library lending activites. I feel my personal privacy was/is being invaded. I'm surprised that no one cares that Amazon was requiring all kindle library loans to go through their servers. And that if you checked out a kindle library book...Amazon would email you to buy that book. WTF. That should be a PRIVATE activity taking place between me and my city library. NOT me, my city library and Amazon trying to stick it's greedy fingers in my pocketbook. That's insane and probably the (first) reason why Penguin pulled their books. Publishers don't want Amazon to have that kind of data access. And neither do I!

2 - I really wish that Penguin had not pulled their ebooks from libraries. I feel that libraries are almost sacred and pulling books ridiculous.

What's to do? Keep feeding the monster?


Cut off it's food supply so that it slowly dies a natural death or at least shrinks into a smaller monster?

[rdfry]

[QUOTE=MrsJoseph;1964322]I feel two ways about this new kerfluffle:

1 - I am PISSED at AMAZON for inserting itself into my library lending activites. I feel my personal privacy was/is being invaded. I'm surprised that no one cares that Amazon was requiring all kindle library loans to go through their servers. And that if you checked out a kindle library book...Amazon would email you to buy that book. WTF. That should be a PRIVATE activity taking place between me and my city library. NOT me, my city library and Amazon trying to stick it's greedy fingers in my pocketbook. That's insane and probably the (first) reason why Penguin pulled their books. Publishers don't want Amazon to have that kind of data access. And neither do I!

2 - I really wish that Penguin had not pulled their ebooks from libraries. I feel that libraries are almost sacred and pulling books ridiculous.

Hey I don't like it either. Amazon should have been forced to either allow epubs or have Overdrive distribute the azw files.

[RDaneel54]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

This does remind me of the authors or publishers who were kind of in an uproar about bookcrossing. The idea of bookcrossing is you find a book, read a book, pass it on. (physical books, that is).

I don't think authors understand or trust the power of word of mouth advertising. I've loaned books to my own daughter who has said, "Oh I want to buy this book!" when she was finished reading it. I said to her, "why do you want to buy it, you can use this one as long as you like!" Nope, she wanted her OWN copy.

That is how it is for me with libraries and with bookcrossing... I used to really love reading books that people would throw into the pile, but some of them I wanted forEVER, so I bought them. People have credited me with getting them addicted to certain authors they hadn't known existed.

Libraries allow me to concentrate my buying habits to what I actually know I like. This is just me, I am just one person, but that's how I function when it comes to anything like books, music, movies, etc... one exposure and I am hooked if it is actually my cup of tea.

I lent a book once to a friend. Before she had even finished reading my copy, she had gone out to buy one for herself. So, I see what you are saying, but do the publishers?

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by rdfry

Hey I don't like it either. Amazon should have been forced to either allow epubs or have Overdrive distribute the azw files.

But no one is too upset at Overdrive. It's all Penguin hate and Amazon love in here.

I stopped buying Agency6 books new a while ago...I only buy used DTBs if I have to get my fix.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

1 - I am PISSED at AMAZON for inserting itself into my library lending activites. I feel my personal privacy was/is being invaded. I'm surprised that no one cares that Amazon was requiring all kindle library loans to go through their servers. And that if you checked out a kindle library book...Amazon would email you to buy that book. WTF. That should be a PRIVATE activity taking place between me and my city library. NOT me, my city library and Amazon trying to stick it's greedy fingers in my pocketbook. That's insane and probably the (first) reason why Penguin pulled their books. Publishers don't want Amazon to have that kind of data access. And neither do I!

I like going through Amazon for my library books, because they get delivered wirelessly. No more cables.

I don't see a privacy issue. Amazon already knows which books I buy so I don't care if they know which books I borrow.

[John F]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I feel two ways about this new kerfluffle:

1 - I am PISSED at AMAZON for inserting itself into my library lending activites. I feel my personal privacy was/is being invaded. I'm surprised that no one cares that Amazon was requiring all kindle library loans to go through their servers. And that if you checked out a kindle library book...Amazon would email you to buy that book. WTF. That should be a PRIVATE activity taking place between me and my city library. NOT me, my city library and Amazon trying to stick it's greedy fingers in my pocketbook. That's insane and probably the (first) reason why Penguin pulled their books. Publishers don't want Amazon to have that kind of data access. And neither do I!

...

I've seen ebooks at the library I frequent in epub (and PDF) only. I'm guessing that Penguin could only make the epub available.

And reading a quote from Penguin, I don't see any mention of Amazon and privacy concerns:

In these ever changing times, it is vital that we forge relationships with libraries and build a future together. We care about preserving the value of our authors’ work as well as helping libraries continue to serve their communities. Our ongoing partnership with the [American Library Association] is more important than ever, and our recent talks with ALA leadership helped bring everything into focus.

Looking ahead, we are continuing to talk about our future plans for eBook and digital audiobook availability for library lending with a number of partners providing these services. Because of these discussions, as of February 10, 2012, Penguin will no longer offer additional copies of eBooks and audiobooks for purchase via Overdrive.

Physical editions of Penguin’s new and backlist titles will continue to be available in libraries everywhere.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by RDaneel54

I lent a book once to a friend. Before she had even finished reading my copy, she had gone out to buy one for herself. So, I see what you are saying, but do the publishers?

Exactly. They clearly do not understand the day to day real life experiences of every day people who just want to freaking read a book to see if they'll grow insanely attached to it.

But nobody believes the sappy anecdotal stuff....

Authors who write superior quality stuff that people will be addicted to don't have to worry about the people who read it for free at the library. Write good stuff, and when people can afford it or get a birthday/christmas gift asking occasion, will eventually buy the book!

[tubemonkey]

After reading a borrowed book, I have no desire to buy it. I've already read it.