Do you pirate books and why?

[DrNefario]

It was definitely available when I bought Starship Trooper (now also gone). Time Enough for Love has since disappeared from the UK Kindle Store, too. I don't know what's going on with the Heinlein rights. Maybe they're planning a relaunch or something.

[AlexGrama]

At this moment, I do not own the proper funding for building a legal e-library thus I chose "yes". However, the proper answer is "once in a while". I often hunt the freebies.

[xg4bx]

it happened again yesterday, i dropped $150 ordering hard copies of books from authors i discovered while sailing the 7 seas. $90 of that went to one indie author alone, an author i was too gun-shy to purchase legally until i sampled one of his works. 1 pirated book led to me owning his 10 book bilbliography in print because i enjoyed it so much.

instead of being an evil pirate i'm more of a chaotic good rogue.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by xg4bx

it happened again yesterday, i dropped $150 ordering hard copies of books from authors i discovered while sailing the 7 seas. $90 of that went to one indie author alone, an author i was too gun-shy to purchase legally until i sampled one of his works. 1 pirated book led to me owning his 10 book bilbliography in print because i enjoyed it so much.

instead of being an evil pirate i'm more of a chaotic good rogue.

perception

[sbroome]

Originally Posted by xg4bx

it happened again yesterday, i dropped $150 ordering hard copies of books from authors i discovered while sailing the 7 seas. $90 of that went to one indie author alone, an author i was too gun-shy to purchase legally until i sampled one of his works. 1 pirated book led to me owning his 10 book bilbliography in print because i enjoyed it so much.

instead of being an evil pirate i'm more of a chaotic good rogue.

How many books did you read for free and not pay for because you didn't like them? Did the authors agree to allow you to read the books for free or did they ask you to pay for them? If we can't do something as simple as respecting author's wishes, the least you can do is stop acting like some kind of champion.

[scrapking]

Originally Posted by AlexGrama

At this moment, I do not own the proper funding for building a legal e-library thus I chose "yes". However, the proper answer is "once in a while". I often hunt the freebies.

Fascinating that your profile appears to indicate you're a writer. I'm curious, how would you feel about someone pirating your work?

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by scrapking

Fascinating that your profile appears to indicate you're a writer. I'm curious, how would you feel about someone pirating your work?

That fascinated me as well. Why not become a blog reviewer and get free copies? You'd be doing double-duty helping your fellow writer (well, for the books you liked.) Or perhaps download any of the HUGE number of freebies available from writers looking for exposure? Or libraries. Or lending.

[ProfCrash]

I am less fixated on the author bit, although that is interesting, then the attitude that if I can't afford it it is ok for me to steal it. I sympathize (sp) with not having the money to buy the things that you want but that does not justify theft. Go to a library, borrow books from a friend, find a book exchange, but stealing is stealing.

[sbroome]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

I am less fixated on the author bit, although that is interesting, then the attitude that if I can't afford it it is ok for me to steal it. I sympathize (sp) with not having the money to buy the things that you want but that does not justify theft. Go to a library, borrow books from a friend, find a book exchange, but stealing is stealing.

For the entitled generation there's no need for any of that. They can, so they do. Some would call that a lack of standards but we don't want to offend anybody.

[ProfCrash]

I have a feeling that there are many generations represented here and that this is not limited to one age group.

I know when I was uneployed, I walked to the library and checked out books on a regular basis. That struck me as the right way to read. I was not able to read everything that I wanted but I was able to find things to read. If you cannot justify going into a physical store to take a book without paying for it why is it ok to do so on the internet?

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Go to a library, borrow books from a friend, find a book exchange, but stealing is stealing.

Ah. "Ebooks are not for the poor; they should read paper." Also, "making copies is stealing;" I never get tired of that. (Making unauthorized copies can be illegal and harmful and wrong; it still isn't "stealing," any more than breaking someone's arm is "stealing" his income. If you're really convinced it's wrong, you should be able to argue for that with accurate terminology.)

I really am baffled at the idea that, if ebooks are what I read and I'm on a tight budget, in order to sample a book by an author I don't know, I should get a used pbook I can destroy, chop the spine, convert to format of my choice, and read that... thus removing the pbook from circulation so nobody else can sample it, failing to pay the author any royalties, and having an ebook version that I can't share, so that anyone else who wants to make the ebook (like, perhaps, the author himself, when he reclaims the rights) will have to duplicate that effort.

Who, exactly, benefits from this scenario?

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Ah. "Ebooks are not for the poor; they should read paper." Also, "making copies is stealing;" I never get tired of that. (Making unauthorized copies can be illegal and harmful and wrong; it still isn't "stealing," any more than breaking someone's arm is "stealing" his income. If you're really convinced it's wrong, you should be able to argue for that with accurate terminology.)

I really am baffled at the idea that, if ebooks are what I read and I'm on a tight budget, in order to sample a book by an author I don't know, I should get a used pbook I can destroy, chop the spine, convert to format of my choice, and read that... thus removing the pbook from circulation so nobody else can sample it, failing to pay the author any royalties, and having an ebook version that I can't share, so that anyone else who wants to make the ebook (like, perhaps, the author himself, when he reclaims the rights) will have to duplicate that effort.

Who, exactly, benefits from this scenario?

You can get ebooks from the library. Has nothing to do with paper anymore. There are a lot of freebies DAILY as well. The point is that there are other legal ways to obtain books (ebook or paperback.)

[ProfCrash]

No, if you cannot afford something you cannot take it because you want it. If you cannot afford the e-book I am guessing that you cannot afford the paper book. You cannot walk into a book store and walk out with a paper book that you did not pay for. That is theft. Why would that be any different with an e-book?

There are alternatives for people who cannot afford to buy books, paper or electronic. Many libraries have e-books that people can check out. They might not be the books that you want but there are books that you can read. If the library does not have e-books then yes, you are stuck with paper books.

Used book stores sell books at cheaper prices. Consignment shops and yard sales have books for sale cheap. Find a group that exchanges books with each other. There are legitimate options for getting reading material that do not require theft.

I fail to understand how "I don't have the money to buy luxury item X so I can steal luxury item X" is justifiable. And as much as I love to read, books are a luxury item. They might be less expensive and more available today then they were 50 years ago, 100 years ago, or 500 years ago but they are still a luxury item. If you cannot afford them find some place to borrow them from and enjoy what you can find.

But theft is theft and justifying theft because money is tight is no excuse. Because you cannot afford it you are going to deprive the Author of money that he/she needs to pay his/her bills? I am sorry but you might not be taking a physical object but you are still taking an action that deprives another person of money that they are entitled to. That is theft.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Ah. "Ebooks are not for the poor; they should read paper." Also, "making copies is stealing;" I never get tired of that. (Making unauthorized copies can be illegal and harmful and wrong; it still isn't "stealing," any more than breaking someone's arm is "stealing" his income. If you're really convinced it's wrong, you should be able to argue for that with accurate terminology.)

I really am baffled at the idea that, if ebooks are what I read and I'm on a tight budget, in order to sample a book by an author I don't know, I should get a used pbook I can destroy, chop the spine, convert to format of my choice, and read that... thus removing the pbook from circulation so nobody else can sample it, failing to pay the author any royalties, and having an ebook version that I can't share, so that anyone else who wants to make the ebook (like, perhaps, the author himself, when he reclaims the rights) will have to duplicate that effort.

Who, exactly, benefits from this scenario?

Here's an example of how checking out a library book (ESPECIALLY EBOOK) helps an author. I really want to read Patricia Briggs 3rd in the Alpha and Omega series. REALLY want to--but it turns out it's only coming out in hardback and expensive ebook (25 for the hardback and 12.99 for ebook.) Now, that's outside my budget. So I can wait for the paperback just like I have done for many, many years. When the paperback comes out, maybe I'll get lucky and the book will be 7.99 in ebook (probably still cheaper for me to buy the 4 for 3 on Amazon). Now, if the ebook makes it to my library, you BET I'm going to get on the list!!!! I love her work. She'll get paid and the publisher will have a record of the popularity. This helps the author a LOT. It shows demand. If there is no ebook, guess who is going to request the library get the hardback??? ME. I'm going to go in there and put in the request as many times as it takes. And then I'm going to check it out. And Briggs and the publisher will benefit.

I'm also entering contests to win a copy.

See, I managed to read and find authors before illegal sites. And if those sites weren't there, others might actually be asking their libraries to get copies INSTEAD of downloading. Those downloads hurt the author. No library sale. No record with the publisher of the popularity.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

No, if you cannot afford something you cannot take it because you want it. If you cannot afford the e-book I am guessing that you cannot afford the paper book.

DUNE: $14.95 for Kindle; $.04+shipping used pback. Cheaper than that at most thrift stores. Free copies are always bouncing around.

You cannot walk into a book store and walk out with a paper book that you did not pay for. That is theft. Why would that be any different with an e-book?

Because when someone takes a book away from a bookstore, the store can't sell it to someone else. When someone makes a digital copy, the store doesn't have less stock available. Ergo, not theft. If you have a bakery, and I learn your recipe and make a batch of cookies the same as yours, and stand outside your shop giving them away--I may cause problems for your business, but I'm not *stealing* your money.

There are alternatives for people who cannot afford to buy books, paper or electronic. Many libraries have e-books that people can check out.

From one, maybe two, of the "agency 6" publishers. Four of them don't make library ebooks available for any new titles, and one only allows libraries to rent their ebooks--they stop working after 26 checkouts.

They might not be the books that you want but there are books that you can read. If the library does not have e-books then yes, you are stuck with paper books.

I, personally, have no shortage of free ebooks. I'm just constantly surprised at the number of people, authors included, who seem to think that it's just fine for some ebooks to be entirely unavailable to people on tight budgets.

And then they complain about the rise of popularity of the $.99 ebook, and bemoan the losses in the print industry. And, what, they think that when those people have enough money to spend more than $.99 or $2.99 at a time on ebooks, they're going to jump to authors they don't know whose works cost 4-5x what they're used to paying?

Used book stores sell books at cheaper prices. Consignment shops and yard sales have books for sale cheap. Find a group that exchanges books with each other. There are legitimate options for getting reading material that do not require theft.

And we're back to "ebooks are not for the poor; they can read used paper books instead." And "those copies are theft because I have decided that theft means 'someone is costing someone else money' rather than 'someone is taking something away from someone else.'"

If ebook copies are "theft," so is a bad review.

It's a justifiable stance; I just find it despicable. We finally have the resources to make huge portions of the history of literature available to anyone who has access to a computer or cellphone--which includes some of the most impoverished and disadvantaged and downright oppressed people on the planet--and the attitude is, "let them cope with castoff shreds just like they have been."

I don't mean to say that most downloaders are living in poverty--but I reject any "solution to piracy" that's founded on the premise that it's immoral not to pay the author for each person who reads a book, or that the morality somehow changes when the medium is pixels instead of ink.

I fail to understand how "I don't have the money to buy luxury item X so I can steal luxury item X" is justifiable. And as much as I love to read, books are a luxury item. They might be less expensive and more available today then they were 50 years ago, 100 years ago, or 500 years ago but they are still a luxury item. If you cannot afford them find some place to borrow them from and enjoy what you can find.

But theft is theft and justifying theft because money is tight is no excuse. Because you cannot afford it you are going to deprive the Author of money that he/she needs to pay his/her bills? I am sorry but you might not be taking a physical object but you are still taking an action that deprives another person of money that they are entitled to. That is theft.[/QUOTE]