The culture of entitlement and illegal downloads

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by Yapyap

And if you're me, it's $9.19 on Amazon and not available anywhere else. Not that I'm saying that it entitles me to pirate the book, because it doesn't (and at least it's actually available), but it's certainly not "pennies". (Especially in a country with non-Western Europe income levels, but that's my problem, not the author's, of course.)

(I'd never heard of the guy before this thread. I looked at his book; it sounds potentially interesting, enough so that I'd probably have bought it for "pennies over £2.00" - but it doesn't sound interesting enough for me to get it at well over $9. So I'm just not going to get it or read it.)

Plus he also assumes, IMHO, that each illegal copy of his book actually gets read. As for your book, that one possibly gets pirated as well if someone doesn't have kindle. Does not mean though that those copies will show up on the internet.

Edit: unless I misunderstood and you meant that Guy Haley's book is that much. Instead of a book you wrote. Sorry about that.

[Yapyap]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Edit: unless I misunderstood and you meant that Guy Haley's book is that much. Instead of a book you wrote. Sorry about that.

I meant Guy Haley's book, yes. I haven't published anything as far as I know! I was just rather surprised by his "only pennies over £2.00" claim when it's considerably - and I mean, what, three times that much? - more expensive than that to some of us.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Then you are writing the wrong type of books. When you write for money you don't have the luxury of writing what you want to write. You need to be writing books that will cash in on whatever the latest literary or social craze is, write them fast, and get them out there before the craze ends or it becomes so saturated that there's no money left in it.

If you think only books on the latest craze make money... well, I disagree.

[speakingtohe]

I have seen quite a few mystery/thriller authors jump on the paranormal/YA bandwagon. Most do well financially, and some write excellent books in the new genre.

Most I sincerely wish they would go back to what they were writing to start out with. Mainly because I like the first books and wish to read more. I respect their choice of course, and I suspect it is not that easy to switch back.

Helen

[Ninjalawyer]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

If you think only books on the latest craze make money... well, I disagree.

Uh...I think his point was that if all you want to do is make a fat pay cheque (and there's nothing in particular wrong with that), then you should be aggressively working to identify optimal markets and genres and churning out a book to fit that in as little time as possible; basically maximizing your potential profit, with no regard to what you like to write. But I could be wrong, that's just what I gathered from actually reading the words of his post...

I don't want to be patronizing by saying something you obviously know already, but your books wouldn't be any more popular if book piracy didn't exist; in fact, the tech that makes book piracy so easy also maximizes your chance of success by letting you reach billions of people. If you're not successful in this environment, there's no doubt several reasons why (both ones you can and can't control), but piracy probably isn't a major factor.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

If you think only books on the latest craze make money... well, I disagree.

Then write one of the other types of books that makes money. The point is, what you are writing now doesn't make any money, as you keep pointing out, so there's no point writing any more of those if money is your only motivation.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Then write one of the other types of books that makes money. The point is, what you are writing now doesn't make any money, as you keep pointing out, so there's no point writing any more of those if money is your only motivation.

Ah. So all of those sci-fi writers should stop writing sci-fi and start writing celebrity tell-alls, because they make more money?

Don't forget, writers specialize because they tend to excel in certain genres more than others. Though I wish I was the sort of writer who could write in any genre, I'm not. I write in the genre I am best at, and will therefore make the most money. If I can't make money writing SF, or some other science or technology subject, I might as well just stop writing... because my celebrity tell-alls will most certainly suck.

[Ninjalawyer]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Ah. So all of those sci-fi writers should stop writing sci-fi and start writing celebrity tell-alls, because they make more money?

No, they should keep writing because they've cracked the case on how to make money writing what they like. If you can't make money writing novels you like, then maybe you need to expand into other genres, or just try something else entirely (e.g. freelance writing).

Always change a losing strategy.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer

No, they should keep writing because they've cracked the case on how to make money writing what they like.

Or they aren't motivated by money. Books are like music, you get the most profit by writing to a formula that is popular at the time. The chances of someone writing what they want to write and then ending up with a bestseller are next to zero. It does happen now and again, but it's no coincidence that when it does happen there's lots of similar stuff available almost immediately.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Ah. So all of those sci-fi writers should stop writing sci-fi and start writing celebrity tell-alls, because they make more money?

If their reason for writing is "lots of money now followed by long-term trickle of income from royalties etc," then yes. Celebrity tell-alls are more profitable, as a genre, than science fiction.

I tend to assume most sci-fi authors write that genre because they love telling those stories. They'd love to get paid for it, which is why they put in the extra effort to edit and complete the stories, and whatever business hassles are involved in getting it to the public--but if their top priority is "sustainable career with long-term benefits," there are much better options.

If they're not versatile enough writers to work in another field, they're probably not skilled enough writers to make a living at sci-fi, either. Which doesn't mean they're instantly talented enough to write thrillers or romance or paranormal YA novels instead--but if they don't have the skills to research the tropes of those genres and write for them, they don't have the skills to write consistently in their genre-of-choice, either.

They may not *want* to write in those genres. But then we're back to, "are you trying to have a successful career, or trying to tell the stories you want to share?" They're not incompatible goals, but each writer has to sort out which one's more important.

Don't forget, writers specialize because they tend to excel in certain genres more than others. Though I wish I was the sort of writer who could write in any genre, I'm not.

Pretty much nobody can write in "any" genre. But "science fiction" is a genre that includes several types of writing--a story can be a mystery, or a psychological drama, or an adventure tale, or a romance, or some combination thereof.

Character vs character.
Character vs nature.
Character vs self.
Character vs supernatural.
Character vs society.
Character vs destiny.

An excellent writer may only be able to write one or two of those -- but if that writer can't put a story in a variety of settings, or focus on a variety of character interactions, that's lack of skill and training, rather than lack of innate talent and style.

I write in the genre I am best at, and will therefore make the most money. If I can't make money writing SF, or some other science or technology subject, I might as well just stop writing... because my celebrity tell-alls will most certainly suck.

I don't mean that a good writer should be able to write in *any* genre, and certainly not equally well or profitably. But science fiction isn't the only genre with a scientific focus... plenty of medical thrillers focus on the science, adventure novels can rely on technology as a crucial plot element, and mysteries, of course, can be solved with exotic equipment or skills not available to the general public.

If you're saying "I can't write a decent story unless it involves settings and technology that don't actually exist," that's declaring that you lack some essential authorial skills. Saying, "I don't want to write such a story" is a different matter--and it says your priorities are about the stories you want to tell rather than the stories that would make the most money.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Ah. So all of those sci-fi writers should stop writing sci-fi and start writing celebrity tell-alls, because they make more money?

Don't forget, writers specialize because they tend to excel in certain genres more than others. Though I wish I was the sort of writer who could write in any genre, I'm not. I write in the genre I am best at, and will therefore make the most money. If I can't make money writing SF, or some other science or technology subject, I might as well just stop writing... because my celebrity tell-alls will most certainly suck.

Set the WAYBAC machine to the 1950's. Look at the number of Science-Fiction writers who changed what they wrote to other genres because they could make a better living doing that. (And did S/F on the side until S/F sold enough for them to change back). Look at movie/TV writing credits from teh late 50's and 60's, for example.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Then write one of the other types of books that makes money.

Common expert opinion is that no one knows what that is. As a great lover of google, I could find lots of quotes supporting this, but here's the first I found:

how many books can you expect to sell?

The answer is… it is impossible to predict. The underlining nature of the publishing world is that best sellers are well… unpredictable. In fact, the only predictable thing about best sellers is that they are few and far between

Of course, the case of extremely well-known authors is an exception. The next US presidential memoir, or novel by Stephen King, will sell more than the next popular science book on the topic of linear algebra. But I can't see how you could reliably predict that the next novel by an author who tries to write in the same genre as Mr. King will sell more copies than the the next popular science book on the topic of linear algebra. We could argue the question back and forth as to which will sell better (that linear algebra book has no competition), but because there is no evidence, we just don't know.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Set the WAYBAC machine to the 1950's. Look at the number of Science-Fiction writers who changed what they wrote to other genres because they could make a better living doing that. (And did S/F on the side until S/F sold enough for them to change back). Look at movie/TV writing credits from teh late 50's and 60's, for example.

I agree with what you are saying and hope I did understand the point you were trying to make. Let me continue the thought process a little:

What you wrote is not a contradiction or even a surprise. Many of the back then SF authors might not have wanted to write science fiction or did not care what they wrote, but made sure that they told stories that people would want to read at the time. It works the other way around as well: If you want to write a certain genre (e.g. romance) and it does not sell at the time, you possibly could create a love-story in a science fiction setting. You could write about how your robot-mistress cheated on you with your neighbors robot-toy-dog or somesuch. Sorry though, if I come up with ideas it all turns into a sarcastic comedy. That is why I am not a writer . And besides, cyber-cheating is not actually that much of science fiction any more, it does exist. With time it will be even harder to come up with unique ideas for new technology to put into science fiction stories. Unless you want it to sound like a copy of this sucessful author or that one. Plus some of what was science fiction decades ago is reality now.

It is perfectly fine for any author to not wanting or beeing able to be flexible. If that unwillingness to write is hindering the author by not making as much money as in a different genre, then please don't complain about it. Unlike most other jobs out there a writer does have the option to write what he/she wants. If I don't like my job and would like to switch to a different job then I have that option as well - to a degree limited by my qualifications. The decision is going to be if I work to enjoy working making less money, or work a different job (genre for authors) that pays better, but I might not like as much.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Common expert opinion is that no one knows what that is. As a great lover of google, I could find lots of quotes supporting this, but here's the first I found:

how many books can you expect to sell?

The answer is… it is impossible to predict. The underlining nature of the publishing world is that best sellers are well… unpredictable. In fact, the only predictable thing about best sellers is that they are few and far between

That is a nice link, thank you. I took liberty to edit it in my quote for it to work correctly. You might want to edit that.

Maybe writers need to buy that crystal ball to ask it what the next best genre is. But then if I had it, I would ask it for the numbers in the next lottery ...

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Or they aren't motivated by money. Books are like music, you get the most profit by writing to a formula that is popular at the time. The chances of someone writing what they want to write and then ending up with a bestseller are next to zero. It does happen now and again, but it's no coincidence that when it does happen there's lots of similar stuff available almost immediately.

It makes me wonder. Would Harry Potter, and all those other "new" series, be as popular as they are now, if the Fantasy craze headed by The Lord of the Rings movies had never happened?

I feel as if Baldur's Gate resurrected the Fantasy RPG on the pc, while the LotR movies resurrected the Fantasy movies and books for the masses.... I only started playing RPG's and read Fantasy after a friend introduced me to Baldur's Gate and LotR in 1998; now I've played many of those games and read many books, released both before and after 1998, and it seems I'm not alone.