Patent Wars take 100: Motorola makes Apple pull iPads and iPhones in Germany

ProfCrash · 02-03-2012, 01:50 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16871075

"The sales ban relates to Motorola's patent for a "method for performing a countdown function during a mobile-originated transfer for a packet radio system".

Motorola licenses the patent to other companies on Frand (fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory) terms.

Frand-type patents involve technologies that are deemed to be part of an industry standard. In this case Motorola's innovation is deemed crucial to the GPRS data transmission standard used by GSM cellular networks across the world.

Companies must offer Frand-type patents for a reasonable fee to anyone willing to pay.

Apple has said it would be willing to pay the fee going forward, but the two firms dispute how much Apple should pay for failing to license the technology up until now. Missed payments are not covered by the "reasonable" rule, and Motorola would be able to demand a more expensive price.

Apple said: "While some iPad and iPhone models are not available through Apple's online store in Germany right now, customers should have no problem finding them at one of our retail stores or an authorised reseller.

"Apple is appealing this ruling because Motorola repeatedly refuses to license this patent to Apple on reasonable terms, despite having declared it an industry standard patent seven years ago."

Motorola said it had offered Apple "reasonable licensing terms and conditions" since 2007.

"We are pleased that the Mannheim court has recognized the importance of our intellectual property and granted an enforceable injunction in Germany against Apple Sales International," a statement said.

Apple's iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 are all affected - but not its newer iPhone 4S. All 3G models of the iPad are involved, but not their wi-fi-only counterparts."

tubemonkey · 02-03-2012, 02:02 PM

ScotiaBurrell · 02-03-2012, 03:12 PM

I thought I saw that this was reversed in Apple favor again.

petermillard · 02-03-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotiaBurrell

I thought I saw that this was reversed in Apple favor again.

Yep. clicky

RainingLemur · 02-03-2012, 03:23 PM

Patent 2: Electronic Boogaloo.

This is getting entertaining.

ProfCrash · 02-03-2012, 03:29 PM

I was just coming to post:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16877438

An appeals court lifted the ban after Apple made a new licence payment offer.

However, Germany-based users may still face the loss of their push email iCloud service after a separate ruling.

Patent consultant Florian Mueller, who attended the review, said that the suspension may only last a few days or weeks - but that Apple's revised proposal had been enough to allow it to restart sales.

"The Karlsruhe higher regional court believes that Apple's new offer needs to be evaluated before this injunction can enter into force again," he wrote on his blog.

"A suspension like this is available only against a bond, but Apple is almost drowning in cash and obviously won't have had a problem with obtaining and posting a bond."

He said that the bond amount was likely to have been about 120m euros ($158m, £100m).

emellaich · 02-03-2012, 08:17 PM

Over the last few decades, many (most) large companies used their portfolio of patents to trade with other large companies: you can use my patents if I can use yours. Apple has been more active with their patents, both in the original Mac/Windows days and now with the iPhone.

I predict, however, that Motorola, Samsung, Sony, et. al. will prove to have enough intellectual property to force Apple into cross-licensing.

Ekaros · 02-04-2012, 06:12 AM

Why there is such a difference between some patents and others. If no patents needed to be shared there wouldn't be Apple selling iPhones at all... Just tells how stupid the system is, the hard working companies are forced to share and the riders with junk can reap the benefit...

Kali Yuga · 02-04-2012, 09:53 AM

I gotta say, I really don't see this as an example of the horrors of patents.

There are apparently two patents here. The one in the BBC article is fairly specific, it's a recognized patent, Apple is just balking at paying. Newer iPhones aren't affected by this, because they use different chips.

The second patent is a bit more general, as it relates to push email. It's an older patent and only applies to a specific service that only a handful of users employ.

The courts overturned the injunctions as well, so it's unlikely these disputes will wind up affecting the public. Shudder gasp.

CommonReader · 02-04-2012, 10:11 AM

To my knowledge the injunctions haven't been overturned but only temporarily suspended.

Andrew H. · 02-04-2012, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommonReader

To my knowledge the injunctions haven't been overturned but only temporarily suspended.

I think that's right...they were just stayed pending appeal.

rdfry · 02-05-2012, 02:05 PM

If Apple was reasonable in competing with Android then most likely the members of the open handset alliance would be willing to cross license their patents, but Apple doesn't want to compete against Android they want to eliminate it, so f them.

SeaKing · 02-06-2012, 12:28 AM

Doggone it.
I wish I owned a few patents so I could shake Apple's tree too!

02-03-2012, 01:50 PM	#1
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	Patent Wars take 100: Motorola makes Apple pull iPads and iPhones in Germany http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16871075 "The sales ban relates to Motorola's patent for a "method for performing a countdown function during a mobile-originated transfer for a packet radio system". Motorola licenses the patent to other companies on Frand (fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory) terms. Frand-type patents involve technologies that are deemed to be part of an industry standard. In this case Motorola's innovation is deemed crucial to the GPRS data transmission standard used by GSM cellular networks across the world. Companies must offer Frand-type patents for a reasonable fee to anyone willing to pay. Apple has said it would be willing to pay the fee going forward, but the two firms dispute how much Apple should pay for failing to license the technology up until now. Missed payments are not covered by the "reasonable" rule, and Motorola would be able to demand a more expensive price. Apple said: "While some iPad and iPhone models are not available through Apple's online store in Germany right now, customers should have no problem finding them at one of our retail stores or an authorised reseller. "Apple is appealing this ruling because Motorola repeatedly refuses to license this patent to Apple on reasonable terms, despite having declared it an industry standard patent seven years ago." Motorola said it had offered Apple "reasonable licensing terms and conditions" since 2007. "We are pleased that the Mannheim court has recognized the importance of our intellectual property and granted an enforceable injunction in Germany against Apple Sales International," a statement said. Apple's iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 are all affected - but not its newer iPhone 4S. All 3G models of the iPad are involved, but not their wi-fi-only counterparts."

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02-03-2012, 02:02 PM	#2
tubemonkey monkey on the fringe Posts: 45,746 Karma: 158575914 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Seattle Metro Device: Moto E6, Echo Show

02-03-2012, 03:12 PM	#3
ScotiaBurrell Banned Posts: 1,118 Karma: 3111746 Join Date: Oct 2011 Device: Kindle & little green monster	I thought I saw that this was reversed in Apple favor again.

02-03-2012, 03:23 PM	#5
RainingLemur Spork Connoisseur Posts: 2,355 Karma: 16780603 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: Nook Color	Patent 2: Electronic Boogaloo. This is getting entertaining.

02-03-2012, 03:29 PM	#6
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	I was just coming to post: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16877438 An appeals court lifted the ban after Apple made a new licence payment offer. However, Germany-based users may still face the loss of their push email iCloud service after a separate ruling. Patent consultant Florian Mueller, who attended the review, said that the suspension may only last a few days or weeks - but that Apple's revised proposal had been enough to allow it to restart sales. "The Karlsruhe higher regional court believes that Apple's new offer needs to be evaluated before this injunction can enter into force again," he wrote on his blog. "A suspension like this is available only against a bond, but Apple is almost drowning in cash and obviously won't have had a problem with obtaining and posting a bond." He said that the bond amount was likely to have been about 120m euros ($158m, £100m).

02-03-2012, 08:17 PM	#7
emellaich Wizard Posts: 1,101 Karma: 4388403 Join Date: Oct 2007 Device: Palm>Ebookman>IPaq>Axim>Cybook>Kndl2>IPAD>Kndl3SO>Voyager>Oasis	Over the last few decades, many (most) large companies used their portfolio of patents to trade with other large companies: you can use my patents if I can use yours. Apple has been more active with their patents, both in the original Mac/Windows days and now with the iPhone. I predict, however, that Motorola, Samsung, Sony, et. al. will prove to have enough intellectual property to force Apple into cross-licensing.

02-04-2012, 06:12 AM	#8
Ekaros Illiterate newbie Posts: 661 Karma: 1702090 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Finland Device: Sony PRS-T1	Why there is such a difference between some patents and others. If no patents needed to be shared there wouldn't be Apple selling iPhones at all... Just tells how stupid the system is, the hard working companies are forced to share and the riders with junk can reap the benefit...

02-04-2012, 09:53 AM	#9
Kali Yuga Professional Contrarian Posts: 2,045 Karma: 3289631 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie	I gotta say, I really don't see this as an example of the horrors of patents. There are apparently two patents here. The one in the BBC article is fairly specific, it's a recognized patent, Apple is just balking at paying. Newer iPhones aren't affected by this, because they use different chips. The second patent is a bit more general, as it relates to push email. It's an older patent and only applies to a specific service that only a handful of users employ. The courts overturned the injunctions as well, so it's unlikely these disputes will wind up affecting the public. Shudder gasp.

02-04-2012, 10:11 AM	#10
CommonReader Fanatic Posts: 528 Karma: 2530000 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Sony PRS-T3, PRS-650, Vaio Tap 11, iPad Mini	To my knowledge the injunctions haven't been overturned but only temporarily suspended.

02-05-2012, 02:05 PM	#12
rdfry loving the books Posts: 374 Karma: 18825402 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: DFW Device: Rooted Nook, Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4, Galaxy Note 5, 2 Fire 7s Note 8	If Apple was reasonable in competing with Android then most likely the members of the open handset alliance would be willing to cross license their patents, but Apple doesn't want to compete against Android they want to eliminate it, so f them.

02-06-2012, 12:28 AM	#13
SeaKing Frequent Flier Posts: 1,282 Karma: 2058993297 Join Date: Oct 2011 Device: KB kindle aboard, Galx Tab 7.0 Plus, trying out Droid 1 as mini-tab	Doggone it. I wish I owned a few patents so I could shake Apple's tree too!