Do you pirate books and why?

[Pookeysgirl]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You're suggesting that the honest majority should fund unlimited downloading by the dishonest minority?

I agree with Harry. I pay enough for internet every month. I'm not paying a dime extra because some fool down the street decides he wants to break the law. I did nothing wrong, why should I have to pay?

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by Pookeysgirl

I agree with Harry. I pay enough for internet every month. I'm not paying a dime extra because some fool down the street decides he wants to break the law. I did nothing wrong, why should I have to pay?

If the system *changed* so there was an overhead fee (and some tracking system) so you could *legally* download with no direct charges for your downloads, why would honest people directly pay for media? All the Internet users would pay in, and rights holders would be reimbursed in proportion to their downloads. It wouldn't be a matter of honest subsidizing dishonest, it would be a direct acknowledgment that information is a public good and that producers deserve to be paid.

...and I see that I'm talking about something quite different than xg4tx was talking about, so I think on his/her idea, I'm solidly with "why should I pay to recoup losses that other people created?"

[tponzo]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

I did not get the CDs free for the LPs I had bought when I moved from albums to CDs. I don't expect to get the digital version of books that I purchased for free now.

If I want the e-book version of something I already own, I buy it. I have probably repurchased about 50 books for my e-reader because I wanted to read the e-book version. I will repurchase the Harry Potter books when they become available as e-books.

(a little ) I would agree with you as far as it goes but what publishers and distributors of ebooks have to understand is that there has been a paradigm shift in how people view digital content, probably because of the changes in how music and movies have become available. This shift in thinking "trickles down" to ebooks. New models of supply have to be offered to customers if publishers want to remain viable in the digital age. This could easily include bundling digital products with non digital and maybe even "trade up" provisions. I am a knitter and there is a knitting site which offers hard cover or paper back knitting books bundled with digital copies of the same book at a discounted price. I think it is an awesome idea and wonder why other publishers cannot do the same or similar.

[Pookeysgirl]

Originally Posted by Joykins

If the system *changed* so there was an overhead fee (and some tracking system) so you could *legally* download with no direct charges for your downloads, why would honest people directly pay for media? All the Internet users would pay in, and rights holders would be reimbursed in proportion to their downloads. It wouldn't be a matter of honest subsidizing dishonest, it would be a direct acknowledgment that information is a public good and that producers deserve to be paid.

...and I see that I'm talking about something quite different than xg4tx was talking about, so I think on his/her idea, I'm solidly with "why should I pay to recoup losses that other people created?"

Oh, sorry, I completely misunderstood your post

[tponzo]

Kinda sucks since I Lost 2 PAID eBooks [so far] I got from Amazon! Yep they Limit how many times you get to download a book!! Sucks! I have 2 kindles [1 broke they replaced it] tried 3 tablets [returned] Now have my 4th Tablet. Changed my desktop to laptops [3rd now] The other day I had to take the Tablet back to Factory! Amazon decided 2 of my eBooks could no longer be download any more Amazon Wont even tell me How Many Downloads I am allowed!!

One of the reasons why I won't buy a kindle

[calibrated]

Originally Posted by tponzo

One of the reasons why I won't buy a kindle

And one of the reasons I have all of my Kindle books backed up as epubs and non-DRM mobis just in case.

[ProfCrash]

"Kinda sucks since I Lost 2 PAID eBooks [so far] I got from Amazon! Yep they Limit how many times you get to download a book!! Sucks! I have 2 kindles [1 broke they replaced it] tried 3 tablets [returned] Now have my 4th Tablet. Changed my desktop to laptops [3rd now] The other day I had to take the Tablet back to Factory! Amazon decided 2 of my eBooks could no longer be download any more Amazon Wont even tell me How Many Downloads I am allowed!! "

Call Kindle Customer Service. This has happened to a few other people. They called Kindle Customer service and the problem was resolved.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by tponzo

One of the reasons why I won't buy a kindle

Just for clarity, it's my understanding the publishers are the ones who set the limit--which is why Amazon doesn't tell you the number. It differs for some publishers, versus their own KDP program (uploading). There was long thread on this on another forum and people did some asking around and calling CS and near as anyone could produce an answer, the limit is not set by Amazon but is adhered to because of publisher requests.

I think Amazon does flag an account for "suspicious" download activity, but that's different.

Re the whole overhead fee. No thanks. I want to pay for ONLY what I want to pay for. Those who don't want to pay are still going to find ways around paying (be it for internet entirely or whatever.) I knew a guy who used to sit outside the library when it was closed to access the "free" internet. (Taxes actually pay for the internet. ) Not that he was breaking any laws, but I don't want to see a raise in fees overall just to cover any sort of broader cost. It's almost guaranteed to be more than I'm currently paying even if you throw in my purchases.

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The writer is perfectly justified in not making a commercial eBook available - that's absolutely their choice. But if I buy the paper book (thus paying the author) and then obtain an eBook for my own personal use, I don't consider that to be ethically wrong. Do you? It's illegal, yes, but is it wrong?

Precisely my thought. I'm not paying for the very same book/music/movie/game/whatever twice or thrice just because it's republished under a new shiny cover. Buy "Sargent Pepper's Lonely Heart Club" on LP, now buy on ultra-crisp CD, now buy on DVD with the old black&white Beatle movie clips, now buy the old songs remastered in DTS 5 bluray, now stream it from our online store, now...

I figure that content is what matters less these days. People don't download huge torrents for what is inside, but for what it fills.

[ProfCrash]

If I own the paper book and the e-book is available, I buy the e-book. I do not believe that buying one version of the good means I can get the next version for free.

If I own the paper book and the e-book is not available, I will download the e-book. When the e-book comes available later, I will buy the e-book.

The reality is that the hardback book is different then the paperback book which is different then the e-book. If I own the hardback book I have to pay for the paperback book if I want that. Why wouldn't I pay for the e-book? There are different production costs associated with each format. If I can, I pay for the format that I want. If that format is not available then I will look else where.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Pookeysgirl

I agree with Harry. I pay enough for internet every month. I'm not paying a dime extra because some fool down the street decides he wants to break the law. I did nothing wrong, why should I have to pay?

But what if you could pay less? Some sort of global satellite wifi available to anyone, built by Google or something? Supported in part by targeted ads and the access fee/tax, a large portion of which is sent to creators of texts?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

Precisely my thought. I'm not paying for the very same book/music/movie/game/whatever twice or thrice just because it's republished under a new shiny cover. Buy "Sargent Pepper's Lonely Heart Club" on LP, now buy on ultra-crisp CD, now buy on DVD with the old black&white Beatle movie clips, now buy the old songs remastered in DTS 5 bluray, now stream it from our online store, now...

I figure that content is what matters less these days. People don't download huge torrents for what is inside, but for what it fills.

No, that's not what I said. I certainly don't think that buying a paper book entitled me to a free ebook, and I would (and have) bought an ebook when I already own the paper book. I was talking about the specific situation that no ebook is available to be bought.

[CyGuy]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

...I'm not paying for the very same book/music/movie/game/whatever twice or thrice just because it's republished under a new shiny cover. Buy "Sargent Pepper's Lonely Heart Club" on LP, now buy on ultra-crisp CD, now buy on DVD with the old black&white Beatle movie clips, now buy the old songs remastered in DTS 5 bluray, now stream it from our online store, now...

I agree. If you already own the CD there is simply no reason to also pay for the MP3 files or any other format. Once you have paid for the content you can format shift to your hearts content. Same for books, movies, etc.

[janicew]

Originally Posted by tponzo

(a little ) New models of supply have to be offered to customers if publishers want to remain viable in the digital age. This could easily include bundling digital products with non digital and maybe even "trade up" provisions. I am a knitter and there is a knitting site which offers hard cover or paper back knitting books bundled with digital copies of the same book at a discounted price. I think it is an awesome idea and wonder why other publishers cannot do the same or similar.

I completely agree with this statement. I have many paperback/hardcover books that I would love to have as an ebook. But I don't want to pay full price again. And I've purchased a few e-books where I'd love to also have the paper book. A bundle or upgrade or conversation fee process would be great as far as I'm concerned.

[Yapyap]

I remove DRM from books I've bought as a matter of course. (I'm not entirely sure whether this makes me a criminal - I've read the Estonian copyright law twice and while it says one shouldn't remove protective measures from works, it also says a physical person has the right to free reproduction of a work for personal use and authors must ensure that any protective measures don't deny people that right to reproduction. Or something like that.)

I've also downloaded books from the darknet. (As far I can tell, this doesn't make a me a criminal here. A pirate though, yes.)

While I'm fully aware that the main reason behind my downloading books is a personal sense of entitlement, I do follow a personal ethical code: I pirate books that are either not legally available as ebooks at all or are not available to me (although in the latter case, I've taken to attempting to pretend I'm American and get it that way, which again means I'm breaking some kind of laws - however, I'd like to believe the authors hate me less for that crime).

A more grey area for me is "series I've seen people recommend and am somewhat curious about but that don't sound entirely like my cup of tea" - in which case I ask myself whether I would buy the first book or borrow it from the library / a friend (if I lived in a country where I could borrow it from the library or a friend). If the honest answer is "library", I'll treat darknet as the library and download the first book; if I like the first book enough to read on, I'll buy the next books (and probably eventually the first one, too). If the honest answer is "I'd probably give in and buy it", and the cost is not horrendously high, I'll give in and buy it.

I read a lot of books; even though I also pirate, I think the ratio is at least 10:1 in favour of purchased books (and I buy a few hundred books a year), and I can say that it's led me to discover and purchase books in series / by authors I probably wouldn't have bought without being able to try first (and as nice as the sample feature is, a sample isn't enough for me to get a good idea of a new series).

Oh, and I've also engaged in criminal activity in that I've "lent" an ebook I've bought (after removing DRM) to a couple of friends who had preordered the same book in hardcover, because I wanted to be able to discuss the book with them now and not two weeks later, once their ordered books arrived. (And no, they didn't cancel their orders just because they'd already read the book by the time it finally arrived.) I think that legally, considering that removing DRM for personal reproduction & downloading for personal use are both okay, that's actually the worst of my crimes...