The culture of entitlement and illegal downloads

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I'm always surprised that people can tell the difference. Once a book goes into my Calibre, I don't remember if I paid $25 for it or got it for free.

Maybe it's just me, but I only buy ebooks when I'm ready to read them. Without needing to worry whether they will sell out, I don't see the point buying them in advance. Though I did get burnt by a limited edition ebook once because it didn't say anywhere it was a limited edition. I only found that out when I went to buy it and it was gone.

Wheras free stuff generally has a finite shelf life so you need to get it when you see it.

[Jobby]

This is well worth reading: http://www.techdirt.com/skyisrising/

Particularly the case studies related to book publishing:

"In fact, in running various experiments,
Konrath found that as he brought the price
of his book lower and lower to around
$0.99, he made increasingly more money
(and built up an even larger fan base). By
further connecting with those fans, and even
encouraging fans to get free copies of some
of his books, he was able to build up an even
larger loyal audience, who were more than
willing to jump at the chance to support
him directly, as he came out with each new
book."

[spindlegirl]

There actually is merit in not turning things you love into a profession - and just continuing on, in doing it for the joy of it.

For instance people don't understand the cost that goes into quality knitting. I love my hand knit socks, for instance, and I knit with fine weight yarn (sometimes that I spun myself), and often an intricate design that takes concentration, and people will think they are offering me gold by saying, "I know someone who would not hesitate to pay $20 for it! You could make a LIVING on those!" But the reality is, it takes far longer and a lot more than $20 in time and materials to make, and I'd have to charge an insane amount if people are seriously talking "a living" and not a church charity sale.

So I don't crank out fine handknits at sweatshop prices - and just pass on the joy of spinning and knitting to those who want to learn, for free (then they can get as addicted as me and spend too much on yarn and stuff hahaha, evil).

Same works for me regarding writing:

I've actually submitted stuff to magazines and newsletters and written for free when I was younger, but I have no designs on taking it much further than the fanciful dreams of my youth. I have toyed with the idea of writing something and putting out for free on Smashwords, and maybe some day I will. But for now, I am happy with amusing myself - I don't expect to be a bestselling author, I'd someday just like to know that someone read and liked a story I write.

[sbroome]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

There actually is merit in not turning things you love into a profession - and just continuing on, in doing it for the joy of it.

For instance people don't understand the cost that goes into quality knitting. I love my hand knit socks, for instance, and I knit with fine weight yarn (sometimes that I spun myself), and often an intricate design that takes concentration, and people will think they are offering me gold by saying, "I know someone who would not hesitate to pay $20 for it! You could make a LIVING on those!" But the reality is, it takes far longer and a lot more than $20 in time and materials to make, and I'd have to charge an insane amount if people are seriously talking "a living" and not a church charity sale.

So I don't crank out fine handknits at sweatshop prices - and just pass on the joy of spinning and knitting to those who want to learn, for free (then they can get as addicted as me and spend too much on yarn and stuff hahaha, evil).

Same works for me regarding writing:

I've actually submitted stuff to magazines and newsletters and written for free when I was younger, but I have no designs on taking it much further than the fanciful dreams of my youth. I have toyed with the idea of writing something and putting out for free on Smashwords, and maybe some day I will. But for now, I am happy with amusing myself - I don't expect to be a bestselling author, I'd someday just like to know that someone read and liked a story I write.

There's merit for doing things creatively full time to where you aren't spending downtime re-familiarizing yourself with certain tedious parts of the process. There's merit to doing it full time so that you just plain get better at it.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

There actually is merit in not turning things you love into a profession - and just continuing on, in doing it for the joy of it... - I don't expect to be a bestselling author, I'd someday just like to know that someone read and liked a story I write.

If I was going to write just for me... I wouldn't go through the trouble of putting it out there for anyone else to see. The effort of doing multiple conversions, creating and maintaining websites, etc, isn't worth it for no return. I'd just write, have them copywritten just for proof that I'd done them, and lock 'em up.

I've already been told I can write very good stories. I don't need constant reinforcement. I've gotten my compliments, I'm good.

[FizzyWater]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

And in other news, all those kids should get off my lawn.

I keep telling you people, that's my tagline!

All you kids should get off my tagline!?

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by sbroome

There's merit for doing things creatively full time to where you aren't spending downtime re-familiarizing yourself with certain tedious parts of the process. There's merit to doing it full time so that you just plain get better at it.

Also true.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Jobby

And yet here you are - complaining that the market is completely wrong and that you are right, and that you *deserve* to be paid for what is essentially a hobby.

What were your words: "If no one wants to pay for my books, I might as well make chairs."

If that's as deep as your commitment to writing is, you'd probably be a much better carpenter.

A major element of the entitlement people feel towards all things is the belief that something that is at once desirable is, at the same time, essentially worthless. Ebooks carry that exact impression with many web denizens, including many of those on this website: That, while they have artistic merit, they are practically/commercially worthless. If there is no worth, there is no reason it should not be given to me; so I'll just take it, since it has worth to me. A typically, egotistically circular logic that reveals itself as senseless and thoughtless.

Comments about artists that should be willing to do something because it is a great love... not because it has worth... and give it away for posterity to enjoy... considering it, therefore, a meaningless "hobby"... reflect this attitude. It is the attitude of someone who doesn't understand how the real world works, and expects the world owes them something for nothing--in fact, everything for nothing--simply because they exist.

I know a number of people who have a "commitment to writing," who cannot write their way out of a paper bag. If you don't believe those people exist, take a visit to Smashwords sometime. (Sorry, Mark.)

On the other hand, I know a number of people who are excellent writers. They write, but not out of some vague commitment to posterity, but out of a desire to take their greatest skill and turn it into a paying profession. They make money to pay mortgages and put food on the table, and they don't give a second thought to whether or not they're this century's Hemingway or Chekov.

When I write, I am not practicing a "hobby." I am trying to build a second income, which will hopefully become a major source of income on such a day (if ever) that I retire. I don't expect people to shower me with money for nothing; I expect them to appreciate the work I put in to entertain them, and compensate me for that specific work. That's how the world transacts business, all businesses, and there is absolutely no reason why writing should be any different.

So, belittle me and my wage-seeking fellow writers all you want. It says nothing negatively about me... rather, it displays your lack of appreciation for the real world and your fellow Man, and it doesn't make me feel an iota of concern.

Entitlement is juvenile. Enjoy your entitlement while you have it, because eventually, you'll have to grow up like the rest of us.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Maybe it's just me, but I only buy ebooks when I'm ready to read them. Without needing to worry whether they will sell out, I don't see the point buying them in advance. Though I did get burnt by a limited edition ebook once because it didn't say anywhere it was a limited edition. I only found that out when I went to buy it and it was gone.

Wheras free stuff generally has a finite shelf life so you need to get it when you see it.

*casts side-long glance at 2,000 book Calibre library*

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

A major element of the entitlement people feel towards all things is the belief that something that is at once desirable is, at the same time, essentially worthless. Ebooks carry that exact impression with many web denizens, including many of those on this website: That, while they have artistic merit, they are practically/commercially worthless. If there is no worth, there is no reason it should not be given to me; so I'll just take it, since it has worth to me. A typically, egotistically circular logic that reveals itself as senseless and thoughtless.

Makes sense. A lot of the perceived value of an item is in its potential resale price, even if you have no intention of ever selling it. With no legal way to resell digital items, the perceived value will be zero. People who buy them are basically buying disposable entertainment, like a film rental. That's why so many people are suprised at the price of ebooks in relation to real books.

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

When I write, I am not practicing a "hobby." I am trying to build a second income, which will hopefully become a major source of income on such a day (if ever) that I retire. I don't expect people to shower me with money for nothing; I expect them to appreciate the work I put in to entertain them, and compensate me for that specific work. That's how the world transacts business, all businesses, and there is absolutely no reason why writing should be any different.

Then you are writing the wrong type of books. When you write for money you don't have the luxury of writing what you want to write. You need to be writing books that will cash in on whatever the latest literary or social craze is, write them fast, and get them out there before the craze ends or it becomes so saturated that there's no money left in it.

[CommonReader]

I do start to get slightly annoyed by authors and other artists who demand the equivalent of putting a large city under martial law just because they are afraid that someone may make off with some low value goods from their garage sale.
Almost any business has to cope with write offs like theft, accidents, breakage, credit write offs, whatever.
Copyright infringement is the hazard of the content industry. The industry should learn to cope with it instead of demanding to turn the Internet into the equivalent of a police state.

[QuantumIguana]

Who pays for the amount of work that went into something? Not just for books, but for anything? If there were two books of equal quality, should the one that required more work from the author cost more? If so, why penalize the author just because writing comes easier to them than to another? The way the real world works is that if people can get the product for less money, they will. There aren't many people who will say "No, that's too cheap, I insist on paying more."

There's nothing different about the way people buy books, it is like any other product. If you could illegally download physical products, some people would do it. No one cares how much work went into the car they drive, they care about the quality of the car and how cheaply they can get it.

[Yapyap]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Where is it pennies over 2 pounds? It is pennies (16) he gets and if that is all he wants from me he could ask for the 16 pennies, but no I would have waste £1.84 additionaly.

And if you're me, it's $9.19 on Amazon and not available anywhere else. Not that I'm saying that it entitles me to pirate the book, because it doesn't (and at least it's actually available), but it's certainly not "pennies". (Especially in a country with non-Western Europe income levels, but that's my problem, not the author's, of course.)

(I'd never heard of the guy before this thread. I looked at his book; it sounds potentially interesting, enough so that I'd probably have bought it for "pennies over £2.00" - but it doesn't sound interesting enough for me to get it at well over $9. So I'm just not going to get it or read it.)

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

The way the real world works is that if people can get the product for less money, they will. There aren't many people who will say "No, that's too cheap, I insist on paying more."

I completely agree on this one if there actually is a price to pay.

There's nothing different about the way people buy books, it is like any other product. If you could illegally download physical products, some people would do it. No one cares how much work went into the car they drive, they care about the quality of the car and how cheaply they can get it.

Again for buying books that will work. On illegaly free books it does not work like that every time. If you actively look for a certain book, because you don't want to pay for it (again) then you probably not going to pay for it later on. If you download a whole library of 2000, 3000, 6000 books then there is a higher chance of a later purchase of a certain book. There is no way anyone steals that many books and intends to read them all. I like the ability of browsing in a book leaf through a book before purchase. You cannot do that with an ebook the same way unless you already have the whole book. Certain people (not me for sure) decide if a book is interesting by reading the last few pages of it. That won't work with a sample chapter either. I don't even have a bookstore here other than Walmart here in town. The next one is about 50 miles away.

[Yapyap]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Second this. When I was younger, I pirated a lot of software I wanted to learn and use, while not having the money to buy it. So, I pirated Windows, Photoshop..... basically most of my software was illegal.

Now that I have enough money, I buy everything legally, or if I find it too expensive or the company's behavior doesn't suit me, I don't use their stuff.

My experience is largely the same (and it's a lot like the experience of many other people I know). When I couldn't afford to pay for computer programs or buy more than one CD every few months (because when you earned 3000 kr / $190 a month and a CD cost 260 kr and a copy of WinRAR was $25 and required a credit card which I didn't have and couldn't get, because back then only the rich people who earned at least 5000 kr / $325 a month could get one, then, well...), then I downloaded considerably more stuff without paying for it.

Once I started earning more and had money actually left over from food and utility bills, I also started paying more and more for both entertainment and computer programs. Practically all of my software is either freeware or legally bought now (including Windows and Office).

I buy my DVDs (circumventing the region codes by having a region-free player - the majority of things wouldn't be available for me otherwise), including buying season sets of TV shows (most of them still shrinkwrapped) that I've downloaded and watched before they became available, just because I hated feeling left out of all the discussions online (yes, I know that's entitlement - I'm not much bothered by that). I buy the overwhelming majority of my ebooks.

I'm sure there are people who grew up with "free" everything and continue to get everything for "free" even once they became able to afford to pay for it, but in my experience, it's simply not true for everyone, possibly not even the majority of people.