Do you pirate books and why?

[WT Sharpe]

To tell me I can read a book on one ereader but not another is like saying, "We'll sell you this book, but you can only read it in the house in which you're currently living. If you wish to read it anywhere else, you'll need to buy another copy from another vendor." DRM has only one justification for existence: to prevent piracy (which it doesn't do very well). If I remove the DRM but don't pirate the book, no one is harmed. Conversely, if one day the DRM encoding ensures I can't access something I purchased legally, someone has been harmed—me! Companies have no right to tell me I can't protect my investment.

[nonobjective]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

To tell me I can read a book on one ereader but not another is like saying, "We'll sell you this book, but you can only read it in the house in which you're currently living. If you wish to read it anywhere else, you'll need to buy another copy from another vendor." DRM has only one justification for existence: to prevent piracy (which it doesn't do very well). If I remove the DRM but don't pirate the book, no one is harmed. Conversely, if one day the DRM encoding ensures I can't access something I purchased legally, someone has been harmed—me! Companies have no right to tell me I can't protect my investment.

Your scenario is apt. But in my opinion the publishers would have long ago imposed similar control over published paper books had there been a way to actually implement it.

The rise of DRM is not signaling a change in publisher philosophy, simply a change in their ability to impose the philosophy on the consumer.

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by Redcard

I think also, people should think about their votes in the context of the place where they live and the legal requirements/standing.

In the US, as I've said, DMCA bans removal of DRM. It considers that piracy. So while you may feel stripping the DRM off the books is morally different than just downloading 3Gig of Ebooks you never intended to buy.. in the eyes of the law (in the US), you're still a criminal. The only difference is how many times you are a criminal.

I think for honesty's sake, and because the government is the one with the guns who will put you in jail if you break their laws, that people should answer this question not on the basis of their own morality, but on the basis of the governments they live under.

Just my thoughts, though. I think it'd show a lot more people pirate.

Sigh. This again. Sigh.

It's important to note that the exact legal status of DRM removal under US law is unknown at this time. (To be clear, that's "DRM removal from legitimately acquired content, for personal use only.") The DMCA is self-contradictory on the topic, and the Judicial branch has yet to clarify the issue. For a longer analysis, see my previous posts here, or especially here.

Xenophon

[Dopedangel]

I started pirating ebooks about 14-15 years ago when I simply did not have access to English language books. Well truthfully the first ebook I read was not even pirated it was Burroughs Princess of Mars from project Gutenberg but such easy access to books made me look for more and I stumbled on what is referred to as the dark net around here.
For someone that loves to read but had very limited access to books it was like winning the lottery first 5 years I might have read over a thousand books. Now I live somewhere its easy to get digital goods so I do purchase ebooks but if I am unable buy a book because of geographic restrictions or if I see a book priced 2-3 times for me compared to people from other countries I pirate it.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

To me, DRM removal and piracy are entirely separate matters. Sure, to pirate a book, the DRM most be removed before it is uploaded, but most people simply remove the DRM from books they bought because they want to insure their purchases will still be readable in the future should ereaders develop new formats that aren't backwards-compatible, or should the company from which they bought their reader go belly-up.

Is it only uploading that is piracy, or downloading as well?

Person A strips DRM for personal reasons.
Highly doubtful that this person is a pirate, either morally or legally.

Person B strips DRM and uploads to a file sharing site.
Likely that this person is a pirate, distributing material he or she has no right to distribute.

Person C downloads from a file sharing site.
This person can rationalize and justify--format shifting, geographical restrictions, unavailability, expense, etc. Is this person a pirate or not?

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Is it only uploading that is piracy, or downloading as well?...

Absolutely. I was trying to say in that post was that in most* cases, piracy wouldn't be possible had not someone first stripped the DRM and uploaded the book somewhere for that purpose. But yes, the person who downloads an illegal copy of a book is just as much a pirate just as the person who uploads the book.

That being said, I still have no problem with people stripping DRM for their own personal use.


* Naturally, if a book never contained DRM in the first place, or if a paper copy was scanned in order to pirate it, that doesn't apply.

[ProfCrash]

A paper book that is scanned and then made available for all to read is still a pirated work. JKR's books are all scanned or retyped. There are no e-books to buy, remove the DRM, and then send out to whoever wants them. They are still pirated.

I am not a legal expert and I have not stayed in a Holiday Inn Express but I would think that any book that is legally copywrited (sp) and is made available to the public by someone other then the person/company that is legally allowed to sell the book is being pirated.

How it is made available is not important. Scanning, stripping DRM, retyping, it doesn't matter. If you do not own the rights to the book you should not be distributing the books. That goes for DRM free books that are sold or even given away for free. It is up to the rights owner to decide how to distribute the book. The rights owner can change their mind and decide that they are going to sell the book now. Just because you got it for free without DRM does not mean that you can give it away to someone without the permission of the rights owner.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

Just above every public poll, this statement is plainly visible before your vote is cast: "Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected." If it makes a difference to you whether the poll results are public or private, please, for your own sake, look at the poll before you answer!

This is a perfectly proper poll, and no one need complain after the fact.

I saw this when I clicked the link to this thread. It was perfectly visible and quite easy to understand.
Apache

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

A paper book that is scanned and then made available for all to read is still a pirated work. JKR's books are all scanned or retyped. There are no e-books to buy, remove the DRM, and then send out to whoever wants them. They are still pirated.

I am not a legal expert and I have not stayed in a Holiday Inn Express but I would think that any book that is legally copywrited (sp) and is made available to the public by someone other then the person/company that is legally allowed to sell the book is being pirated.

How it is made available is not important. Scanning, stripping DRM, retyping, it doesn't matter. If you do not own the rights to the book you should not be distributing the books. That goes for DRM free books that are sold or even given away for free. It is up to the rights owner to decide how to distribute the book. The rights owner can change their mind and decide that they are going to sell the book now. Just because you got it for free without DRM does not mean that you can give it away to someone without the permission of the rights owner.

Agreed.

[WT Sharpe]

In response to an unnamed member whose post in this thread just mysteriously disappeared:

Moderator Notice
MobileRead is not a good site to ask how, where, or to provide links to getting commercial ebooks free via torrent files. MobileRead is against ebook piracy, and "Where do I get pirated titles?" questions are good ways to lose access to MR.

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

How it is made available is not important. Scanning, stripping DRM, retyping, it doesn't matter. If you do not own the rights to the book you should not be distributing the books. That goes for DRM free books that are sold or even given away for free. It is up to the rights owner to decide how to distribute the book. The rights owner can change their mind and decide that they are going to sell the book now. Just because you got it for free without DRM does not mean that you can give it away to someone without the permission of the rights owner.

Absolutely correct. Uploading (or downloading) an eBook that never had DRM (for example, a Baen book) is just as much piracy as one that once had DRM that was stripped. DRM is NOT the issue, and I continue to strip the DRM from every single book I buy, full stop. But I also don't upload them or give them away to others beyond the rights that are legitimately allowed.

[ucfgrad93]

I do not pirate books. Authors or whoever owns the rights to created works have the right to decide how their creations are distributed. I would love to have the Harry Potter series, but JKR has not released them in ebook format. So, I wait and spend money on other books in the meantime.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

DRM has only one justification for existence: to prevent piracy (which it doesn't do very well).

I'd say it doesn't prevent piracy at all.

[nonobjective]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I'd say it doesn't prevent piracy at all.

Not at all? Really? I certainly think it prevents casual or "convenience" piracy. Circumventing DRM is certainly possible but it requires some technical skill.

[Belfaborac]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I'd say it doesn't prevent piracy at all.

Exactly. The one and only thing DRM does is potentially inconvenience legitimate buyers, just like DRM on music CDs potentially made them unplayable in CD players. And that will always be the case: as long as DRM lets a book be read at all, on some device or other, it will be breakable.