Penguin CEO: E-book is the answer to my prayers - Page 3

zelda_pinwheel · 06-05-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieScratch

while I don't think publishers and sellers should make MORE profit on an ebook than they do on a pbook, IMO it's perfectly fair to make the SAME profit on an ebook that they do on a pbook. (Insert "no DRM" qualifier here, I'm down with that.)

yes, i can agree with that as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoSo

I'm a bit more hopeful - the support of the idea behind ebooks (in theory beyond a particular format) is the important thing. Eventually the market will set what the price is, despite what the publisher would like.

yes, i'm very interested to see how things will evolve in the very near future ; it would seem a lot of people agree that we are at the fabled "tipping point" for ebooks (i hope they're right) and things should really evolve quite a bit in a short time now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I have no problem paying the MMPB price for an e-book... as long as I have the same rights to it as I do to a paper book. Which is noDRM, the ability to sell/transfer it to someone else.

another excellent point...

Jellby · 06-05-2008, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

just one point though about the layout process, if they are using Adobe Indesign apparently you can now export directly to ePub, which should facilitate the creation of ebooks parallel to the print books considerably. if they are using Quark, they should switch to Indesign anyway (sorry, i really hate Quark, it's a personal preference. i'll stop now).

They should be using a free tool, such as TeX. Then they would at least have the actual text content in a text-only format, quite easy to retrieve. Also they would reduce production costs, as they wouldn't have to pay for software licenses and upgrades...

vivaldirules · 06-05-2008, 11:56 AM

Nice to see a publisher CEO openly speak positively about ebooks and say why. Thanks for the post, Alexander.

tirsales · 06-05-2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellby

They should be using a free tool, such as TeX. Then they would at least have the actual text content in a text-only format, quite easy to retrieve. Also they would reduce production costs, as they wouldn't have to pay for software licenses and upgrades...

Also I do like (La)TeX very much, I can understand why most publishers like to use other software for fictional work.
But in either case - every DP software I know has some way of exporting the content (either directly or indirectly e.g. via html) to nearly every e-book-format including, but not limited to, PDF and ePub ...
On of the problems is, that some publishers apparently are not using digital archives, but paper one - printing the book and keeping the book, not the files. Others dont even go through the hazzle of creating "one source-file" but manually stuff together the printing templates.
So - there really is not "one nice file" that can be exported - so it would be much more useful. But OTOH it would be useful for developers to use automatic testing, document their source code, etc - and just have a look how many are doing this (hint: Not many), so it seems to be a common problem that "sensible" and "frequently used" are two completely different subjects...

Ebook lover · 06-05-2008, 12:26 PM

We should all write him an email to drop the ebook prices!!

AnemicOak · 06-05-2008, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebook lover

We should all write him an email to drop the ebook prices!!

The thing is, if they're happy with the way things are going at the prices they're charging now they have little incentive to change pricing structures at this time.

In another thread there was a quote from someone at Penguin saying that Penguins Q1 2008 ebook sales were about the same as all of 2007, so at this point they're probably happy with the way things are going.

tirsales · 06-05-2008, 01:24 PM

It's the same problem as always. Some publisher will sometime lower the price to put himself in a better position (with the lower production costs he can do this) - others will follow.
I wouldnt care too much about the actual price - I fear DRM and stuff more ...

soilwork · 06-05-2008, 03:49 PM

Let me start by saying that I would also prefer inexpensive e-books since it 'seems fair' considering the cost involved. However, Penguin CEO has a valid point even though I don't like his argument.

Many of you discussed relative cost of e-book vs. p-book, but firms do not price their product based on costs alone. Firms will charge for books as much as consumers are willing to pay (at least according to economics). If firms do not price their products based on cost, arguing cost will not affect publishers' claim.

Even if publishers charge the same price for both e-book and p-book, I guess some people will still buy e-book. From the publishers' standpoint, there is no reason to lower the price if lowered price cannot increase the sales significantly.

Spartacus2112 · 06-05-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor514ce

Plus the cost of the device itself. Publishers should be giving them away, if they really want to charge "full price" for a product that's cheaper for them to produce. Buy 5 e-books, get a free Reader!

Brilliant!

lee1234 · 06-05-2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tirsales

It's the same problem as always. Some publisher will sometime lower the price to put himself in a better position (with the lower production costs he can do this) - others will follow.
I wouldnt care too much about the actual price - I fear DRM and stuff more ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by soilwork

Let me start by saying that I would also prefer inexpensive e-books since it 'seems fair' considering the cost involved. However, Penguin CEO has a valid point even though I don't like his argument.

Many of you discussed relative cost of e-book vs. p-book, but firms do not price their product based on costs alone. Firms will charge for books as much as consumers are willing to pay (at least according to economics). If firms do not price their products based on cost, arguing cost will not affect publishers' claim.

Even if publishers charge the same price for both e-book and p-book, I guess some people will still buy e-book. From the publishers' standpoint, there is no reason to lower the price if lowered price cannot increase the sales significantly.

You have a point! Brilliant

astra · 06-06-2008, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I have no problem paying the MMPB price for an e-book... as long as I have the same rights to it as I do to a paper book. Which is noDRM, the ability to sell/transfer it to someone else.

BOb

Good point.

soilwork

Quote:

Even if publishers charge the same price for both e-book and p-book, I guess some people will still buy e-book. From the publishers' standpoint, there is no reason to lower the price if lowered price cannot increase the sales significantly

The key word is some.
I am moving towards ebooks completely. In about 1 year, publishers will face a choise: either they provide me with a legal and convenient ebook, or they will have no money from me. They will loose, not me because I will find ways around the problem.

MickeyC · 06-06-2008, 12:59 PM

The Penguin CEO is dead wrong about how a price is set. The price of an ebook (or anything else) is based on supply and demand. It is not set by the dictates of the seller as this guy wishes were true.

The seller will charge as high a price as he/she can. If demand is high and supply low, people will pay that amount. Look at how Apple was able to charge so much for the iPhone when it first came on the market. 37 inch High Def LCDs sold for $10K when they first came out ten years ago. Now, since supply is so high, they sell for a few hundred dollars.

If demand is not high or if supply is high and demand low, the seller will have to drop the price or get stuck with a high inventory.

Cinemas and the Sports industry have tried to dictate prices in selling tickets on-line. They used the same irrational argument this guy is trying. They claim that the buyer should pay for the 'convenience' buying on-line even though it is much cheaper for the industry to sell on-line. IOW, they have dreamed up a rationale to make you pay for saving them money. And it hasn't worked. Most people still line up at the box office. If the industry had passed on their savings to the customers, a lot more people would buy their tickets on their computer and saved the industry a lot of money.

EBook industry needs to wake up and realize this.

AnemicOak · 06-06-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassidym

EBook industry needs to wake up and realize this.

Except ebook sales numbers are growing by leaps & bounds. If they're happy with the rate of growth what's to make them want to re-evaluate current pricing structures?

Steven Lyle Jordan · 06-06-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassidym

The Penguin CEO is dead wrong about how a price is set. The price of an ebook (or anything else) is based on supply and demand. It is not set by the dictates of the seller as this guy wishes were true.

If that's so, there will clearly have to be a new way of setting prices, because the supply part of "supply and demand" becomes nearly meaningless in terms of electronic content (or, to be more accurate, costs must be altered to reflect "bandwidth" instead of "supply").

brecklundin · 06-06-2008, 03:32 PM

something I have yet to see anyone mention is the cost of oil in relation to the cost of a printed book. Face it (oil) the price has increased over 3x in the past 8 years. That means the cost of processing the raw materials needed to produce a book you know ink, paper and what not have also increased significantly. Perhaps this will be the motivating factor to push these CEO sorts to ebook format...to reduce production overhead.

Face it we in the US are in a recession no matter what "they" tell us and have prescious little cash for things like books with gas around $4.50/gal. CEO's these days are only as good as they last quarterly report so they look for new ways to increase the margins. Best way to get us to buy stuff? Find a way to make it easy & cheap as well as a profit "glory hole" for the publishers. Hence these CEO are all coming out in favor of ebooks all of a sudden. Because their production costs of paper have likely gone up 200% or more...so suddenly ebooks look better to them.

Of course then there is the needed spin on the convenience factor. Ummmm, dude guess why I shop at Amazon? It is not simply convenience, it's because it's CHEAPER. Also though these days we no longer are buying most of our staples locally, preferring instead to buy as much as possible on Amazon as we opted for the Amazon Prime and get free 2nd day shipping and can get over night for just $3.99/item. Not everything comes that way but the vast majority does. And we no longer pay inflated chain store prices plus we can spend more time not running from store to store because one store carries this and one carries that and none carry the other...but the primary motivation is the PRICE. I would not do it simply for the convenience factor. These publisher CEO's would do well to understand that point.

06-06-2008, 12:59 PM	#42
MickeyC Grand Sorcerer Posts: 16,731 Karma: 12185114 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Florida Device: iPhone 6 plus, Sony T1, iPad 3	The Penguin CEO is dead wrong about how a price is set. The price of an ebook (or anything else) is based on supply and demand. It is not set by the dictates of the seller as this guy wishes were true. The seller will charge as high a price as he/she can. If demand is high and supply low, people will pay that amount. Look at how Apple was able to charge so much for the iPhone when it first came on the market. 37 inch High Def LCDs sold for $10K when they first came out ten years ago. Now, since supply is so high, they sell for a few hundred dollars. If demand is not high or if supply is high and demand low, the seller will have to drop the price or get stuck with a high inventory. Cinemas and the Sports industry have tried to dictate prices in selling tickets on-line. They used the same irrational argument this guy is trying. They claim that the buyer should pay for the 'convenience' buying on-line even though it is much cheaper for the industry to sell on-line. IOW, they have dreamed up a rationale to make you pay for saving them money. And it hasn't worked. Most people still line up at the box office. If the industry had passed on their savings to the customers, a lot more people would buy their tickets on their computer and saved the industry a lot of money. EBook industry needs to wake up and realize this. Last edited by MickeyC; 06-06-2008 at 01:01 PM.

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06-05-2008, 11:56 AM	#33
vivaldirules When's Doughnut Day? Posts: 10,059 Karma: 13675475 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Houston, TX, US Device: Sony PRS-505, iPad	Nice to see a publisher CEO openly speak positively about ebooks and say why. Thanks for the post, Alexander.

06-05-2008, 12:26 PM	#35
Ebook lover NUUT, Cybook Device Posts: 49 Karma: 11 Join Date: Aug 2006 Device: O2	We should all write him an email to drop the ebook prices!!

06-05-2008, 01:24 PM	#37
tirsales MIA ... but returning som Posts: 1,600 Karma: 511342 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Germany Device: PRS-505 and Really not owning a PRS-700	It's the same problem as always. Some publisher will sometime lower the price to put himself in a better position (with the lower production costs he can do this) - others will follow. I wouldnt care too much about the actual price - I fear DRM and stuff more ...

06-05-2008, 03:49 PM	#38
soilwork useR! Posts: 299 Karma: 651 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NY Device: Onyx Boox Max 2, Kobo Libra H2O, iRiver Story HD	Let me start by saying that I would also prefer inexpensive e-books since it 'seems fair' considering the cost involved. However, Penguin CEO has a valid point even though I don't like his argument. Many of you discussed relative cost of e-book vs. p-book, but firms do not price their product based on costs alone. Firms will charge for books as much as consumers are willing to pay (at least according to economics). If firms do not price their products based on cost, arguing cost will not affect publishers' claim. Even if publishers charge the same price for both e-book and p-book, I guess some people will still buy e-book. From the publishers' standpoint, there is no reason to lower the price if lowered price cannot increase the sales significantly.

06-06-2008, 03:32 PM	#45
brecklundin Banned Posts: 1,906 Karma: 15348 Join Date: Jun 2007 Device: mine	something I have yet to see anyone mention is the cost of oil in relation to the cost of a printed book. Face it (oil) the price has increased over 3x in the past 8 years. That means the cost of processing the raw materials needed to produce a book you know ink, paper and what not have also increased significantly. Perhaps this will be the motivating factor to push these CEO sorts to ebook format...to reduce production overhead. Face it we in the US are in a recession no matter what "they" tell us and have prescious little cash for things like books with gas around $4.50/gal. CEO's these days are only as good as they last quarterly report so they look for new ways to increase the margins. Best way to get us to buy stuff? Find a way to make it easy & cheap as well as a profit "glory hole" for the publishers. Hence these CEO are all coming out in favor of ebooks all of a sudden. Because their production costs of paper have likely gone up 200% or more...so suddenly ebooks look better to them. Of course then there is the needed spin on the convenience factor. Ummmm, dude guess why I shop at Amazon? It is not simply convenience, it's because it's CHEAPER. Also though these days we no longer are buying most of our staples locally, preferring instead to buy as much as possible on Amazon as we opted for the Amazon Prime and get free 2nd day shipping and can get over night for just $3.99/item. Not everything comes that way but the vast majority does. And we no longer pay inflated chain store prices plus we can spend more time not running from store to store because one store carries this and one carries that and none carry the other...but the primary motivation is the PRICE. I would not do it simply for the convenience factor. These publisher CEO's would do well to understand that point.