Amazon against the rest, or where to get your books

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by sonofpendragon

One thing that's always overlooked. Many folks don't have standalone readers of any kind, yet use the free PC equivolents. I know some of these work on other devices, but I am on about those who sit at the PC / Laptop to read, there are millions of them. Yet - for many years they would not have considered for one moment buying any download of any type, yet they will now buy from Kindle, and buy epubs from other outlets. They could have easily bought a PDF from Lulu or tons of other places, but did not and still, even now, do not. There has to be a reason for the change. If that can be identified and acted upon, then this is one area where alternate outlets could sprout up. It wouldn't solve all of the issues raised here, but it will help.

I almost can't believe it. I would never think about reading a novel on a computer screen. Finally, talked are here, to comfortably read pdf's. I've been wanting to tear the screen off my notebook for a decade, to be able to read pdf's on the couch. Finally, there is a good assortment of books for ereaders, to replace the ever worsening mass market pockets.

[SilverBear]

I don't have the wide experience with a number of different readers tht some folks have. But let me relate a story that happened within the last fortnight.

Set up: I have been an Amazon customer for several years for printed books. And I have been happy with their service.

RE: ebooks: I'd like to be an occasional eBook of Amazon, too. I do not have a Kindle. As a test --before I endangered any of my limited budget-- I "purchased" a free ebook though Amazon to make certain the process would work.

Nope. It didn't. The "enter your email and we'll send it to you as an attachment and you can sideload it via USB" apparently is not an Amazon webapp option if you don't have a registered Kindle serial number.

As suggested on their support page, instead of email, I talked to an Amazon cust-serve rep on the telephone. To her credit, a very polite southern young lady, with whom I find no fault. BUT:
I did not even get to the part about where "there is supposed to be a download via email" option for purchased ebooks.

Bear: "I'm trying to buy an ebook, but I don't have a kindle. . ."
Chick: "What device do you have?"
Bear: "An Onyx Boox reader."
Chick: "Let me check on that. Please excuse me for a minute."
A couple minutes later:
Chick: "I'm sorry but Amazon does not support that device. Amazon ebooks are in a different format."
Bear: "I know, and that's not the problem. I can't even download it."
Chick: "Amazon ebooks are designed for the kindle and Amazon doesn't support the Onyx Boox."
Bear: "I understand the format issue. I just want to get it downloaded. I can convert the format once I have the file."
Chick: "How are you going to do that?"
Bear: "With a program I have."
Chick: "What program?"
Bear: "It's called Calibre."
Chick: "Let me check on that. Please excuse me for a minute."
After a minute or three:
Chick: "Amazon doesn't support that program."
Bear: "Well, I'm not asking for any help with it, I just want to download the book. . ."

There was a bit more of the same, but it concluded with the judgment that if I didn't have a Kindle, I was outside the pale. I ended with the remark that I'd been a good and satisfied Amazon customer for years, and that I'd like to also be able to buy eBooks from amazon. She said she was sorry that it wasn't going to happen.

It seems to me Amazon is trying to do an Apple thing: "All your hardware and Software are belong to us."

I'll still buy paper from them, but as far as eBooks goes, they suck and are retro-20th century monopolists in their market plan.

[Katsunami]

Hou can install Kindle for Pc. The so will show up as a "Kindle" in your Amazon account. Buy a book, and then send it to Kindle for PC. The program will download the file and you can pluck it off the hard drive. A support rep should have been able to tell you that....

[Fbone]

Did you call Amazon customer service or Kindle customer service? They are different.

[Tattncat]

Any place but Kindle.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Someone on another forum mentioned that they have an app on their Kindle Fire to read any epubs they buy. I don't know which app, but I am guessing that moving to a tablet world opens up support for epub at least in this manner.

Mantano would be my app of choice for this, but Aldiko and Bluefire also both support DRM'd ePub (& PDF) both Adobe and B&N style. Any of these can be sideloaded onto the Fire.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Hou can install Kindle for Pc. The so will show up as a "Kindle" in your Amazon account. Buy a book, and then send it to Kindle for PC. The program will download the file and you can pluck it off the hard drive. A support rep should have been able to tell you that....

They would not say that even though it is technically true. If you don't have a kindle or an kindle app then amazon cannot add a drm to the file. Without drm they won't sell it. That you plan on removing the drm as soon as the file arrives so you can convert it is beside the point. I suggest you don't mention that on the phone with Amazon if you want to keep your account in good standing with them.

[BuddyBoy]

Originally Posted by emellaich

I am reasonably comfortable with Amazon and buy many books from them. However, to set the record straight for some of the newer folks, in the ebook world: amazon has already abandoned one ebook format . They used to be in the market with a format before Mobi. Then they closed down their ebook store, and took a hiatus for a while.

Anyone who bought one of these original Amazon ebooks, would have to rebuy it in Kindle format today.

Actually, they had TWO formats they abandoned. I believe they very briefly supported the rb format - along with Barnes and Noble - before moving on to DRM PDFs. Then they pulled out with little warning leaving those of us who had stuff in our "digital locker" high and dry.

Nonetheless I still buy from them today, but I'll only buy ebooks that I can back up sans DRM. I've lost access to too many books over the years and have no desire to start over again. Amazon, B&N, Gemstar, Fictionwise... The list goes on.

[VicLavigne]

Originally Posted by SilverBear

I don't have the wide experience with a number of different readers tht some folks have. But let me relate a story that happened within the last fortnight.
.....

It seems to me Amazon is trying to do an Apple thing: "All your hardware and Software are belong to us."

I'll still buy paper from them, but as far as eBooks goes, they suck and are retro-20th century monopolists in their market plan.

My feeling too. I have been an Amazon customer since about 1995. I've been purchasing print books from them for many years. But I have an intense dislike about their ebook philosophy. From my point of view, the Kindle is not much more than having an Amazon point of sale directly in the consumer's pocket. In the computer world, Kindle resembles the old proprietary computer systems, where you had to buy all hardware and software from the same vendor. Not liking this. So given the option, I will buy ebooks from anywhere but Amazon, even if I pay slightly more. If its not available anywhere but Amazon, that is the rare situation where I will download (via Kindle for PC), then convert to epub for my reader.

[Synamon]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

They would not say that even though it is technically true. If you don't have a kindle or an kindle app then amazon cannot add a drm to the file. Without drm they won't sell it. That you plan on removing the drm as soon as the file arrives so you can convert it is beside the point. I suggest you don't mention that on the phone with Amazon if you want to keep your account in good standing with them.

Amazon doesn't actually put DRM on all their books. The free classics are usually DRM free and some authors sell their books there DRM-free.

You do need to have a 'Kindle for....' app or a Kindle in order to download an ebook from them though, their book delivery system is set up that way which is what makes it easy to use for most people. The ability to manipulate the book file yourself after sending it to your computer using the Kindle for PC/Mac app is an unintended consequence Amazon is certainly not going to advertize.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

They would not say that even though it is technically true. If you don't have a kindle or an kindle app then amazon cannot add a drm to the file. Without drm they won't sell it. That you plan on removing the drm as soon as the file arrives so you can convert it is beside the point. I suggest you don't mention that on the phone with Amazon if you want to keep your account in good standing with them.

Still, if I call Amazon and tell them that I want to read their books on the PC, and I want to know were the files are so I can backup them, it would be wise to help if they want to keep a (potential) customer.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Still, if I call Amazon and tell them that I want to read their books on the PC, and I want to know were the files are so I can backup them, it would be wise to help if they want to keep a (potential) customer.

Having moved around files from Amazon I can tell you that it's a pain in the ass and not all that easy to FIND the files (They aren't named after the title of the book, dang it.) They probably don't have any desire to teach phone support to help people struggle through finding the files and doing anything at all with them. There's also a supporting file for notes and whatnot.

Anyway, as someone said, Amazon does allow authors/publishers to upload without DRM, so I don't think that is an issue. HOWEVER if someone calls and acts suspicious (like asking how to remove it or which books have it) they aren't going to hand over the keys to the kingdom. Keep in mind that several authors to date have had their books stolen from various places and then Slapped back up on Amazon and offered for sale. It's an ongoing problem. Amazon isn't going to offer any help in a process that could result in stolen property (I'm not in any way saying you intended to steal anything, only that there exists a problem and as a vendor, Amazon has to walk a line between helping and protecting the files up there.)

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Still, if I call Amazon and tell them that I want to read their books on the PC, and I want to know were the files are so I can backup them, it would be wise to help if they want to keep a (potential) customer.

Yes. And they should tell you that. I am not disagreeing. They are not even making it a secret when you install Kindle for PC that your books going to be stored in a certain folder. Just say when they ask: "Do you have a Kindle?" "No, not yet, until I do I would like to use Kindle for PC." or somesuch. You need to be able to open the book on a Kindle thingy anyway if you want to remove the DRM, so why not use a free app.

I have to say the way they ask you about your devices and software/apps you are going to use is very customer friendly. Ebook is of course not ebook. This way they will avoid angry or confused customers that bought a Kindle-book - only to discover that it won't read on their Sony. But it is an ebook, WTF!!!

Not everybody is as knowledgeable as many of us here on MR.

[Ken Maltby]

You know if I look in the "My Documents" dir I have folders like:
"My Digital Editions" and "My Barns & Noble eBooks" and "My Kindle Content"

Of course once an ebook is in Calibre it is easier to just right-click on an ebook's entry
and select "Open containing folder". That requires that I have found where the PC app
put the ebook file I've purchased, which is were the "My Documents" folders come in.

Luck;
Ken