Can someone explain the publishers stinking-thinking to me

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Seer

Okay, I'm a newbie in this forum, so don't all jump at me, all at once. I have to agree with CJJ. As a prolific reader, I buy a LOT of books, always have. When I see a physical book, especially at a B&N, ( (but even Wal-Mart), for less than the eBook, I feel ripped off. As a consumer, there is just no viable explanation for why a digital book, delivered electronically, with should ever cost more than a physical book with all it's encumbant costs. Period. If the publishers can't set the price lower than common retail discount stores, then they need to leave it retail pricing. It's insulting really, and I think it invites piracy.

In this case, the book was clearly being remaindered - ie, excess stock being sold off at a very low price simply to get rid of it to make room for new stock. I'm really not sure why that would make you feel "ripped off".

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by SilverBear

How did the average monastery scriptorium deal with the Gutenberg revolution in the 15th century? We're talking about that big of a difference, I'd say. . .

I believe they focused their talent on growing herbs (big business, especially the kind that is consumed with your lungs) and brewing beer or making liqueur.

[RHWright]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's generally the bookstore, yes. Occasionally it'll be the publisher, to clear out stock. No, the bookstore doesn't need permission.

As someone who worked in major bookstores for years, it's actually mostly publisher overstock. Stores may decide to take a loss and mark down their own non-returnable stock at a loss, but most of these discounts work in 1 of 2 ways.

1) Shared markdowns/affidavit returns: Basically, the store tells the publisher how many copies they have on hand and the publisher issues them a partial credit to cover part of the loss of the discount.
2) True overstock: Book stores return inventory for full credit. Publishers have too many and want to get rid of them. They sell them off to bookstores (often the same ones that returned them) at a much lower price that actually makes the $5.98 a profit for the store. More than likely it ends up as a loss for the publisher.

It's just the nature of the print business. It may seem illogical at first glance, but it's a great chance for consumer bargains. Bargains that will never exist (due to no overstock) with ebooks.

[HarryT]

Thank you for the correction. Very interesting information.

[Kumabjorn]

Have to agree with HarryT, QI as the saying goes.
What I take out of this is that bargain e-books, outside self-publishing, will by defenition be loss leaders. Something to lure you towards the store?

[Beryll Snyder]

Originally Posted by RHWright

Bargains that will never exist (due to no overstock) with ebooks.

There are plenty of ebook bargains. Amazon as well as others have free ebook days and many authors are giving their products away for free. Naturally there is no physical overstock. If you consider this as imbalance between supply(the wish of the author to be read) and demand, it seems to amount to the same thing.

[simplyparticular]

A clarification/addition to the Wikipedia article and RJWright's post:

Remaindered books, aka Bargain Books, are bought by the pallet-full from publisher warehouses. The big publishers hold quarterly or semi-annual auctions, and the big chains and outlets bid on them BY THE POUND! There is no exact guarantee of what's in the batch that you're buying, just an overview of listed titles (not quantities).

Since the chains all bid pennies on the pound, there is actually really good profit in them. My Waldenbooks store cleared a half a million NET on our bargain section - our net profit as a store was higher than all the other locals (we had cheap rent in a dying mall). And that was WITH the Buy 4 get One Free promos we ran all the time. I took out two more rows of poor genre sellers to put in more bargain tables.

And don't get me started on the MMPBKs, comics and magazines we tossed out in the mall trash EVERY week. There isn't a single mall around here that had a recycling program.

Dead tree publishing has been screwed up for decades (since the 30s Depression started the Return for Credit system). But there is always money to be made somewhere in the chain.

[aande46461]

JD Gumby hit it on the head.. The print copies are sold at wholesale prices so it leaves room for stores to slide price. As far as eBooks the percentage is usually 20-30%; if you have an agent it's usually 30%; if you self publish it's 20%. The ebook has eliminated the need for publishing houses when it comes to the Kindle, Nook, Ibook store, Sony reader etc... The game is changing... It just maybe that they dropped the price to compete with the digital version.. That's something to think about... I'm a self published author and my title is available on these readers and I only pay out 20% and didn't need a publisher to make this happen...

ANTWAN 'ANT' BANK$ Author of Made; Sex,Drugs and Murder,The Recipe for Success

[Seer]

Originally Posted by HarryT

In this case, the book was clearly being remaindered - ie, excess stock being sold off at a very low price simply to get rid of it to make room for new stock. I'm really not sure why that would make you feel "ripped off".

The ebook value of title should be somwhat lower than the corresponding physical book. If a particular book is "remaindered" for $5, then the selling market value is $5 for that physical book title. Under agency pricing, the same eBook title should be sold for less than $5 as none of the material, storage, retail, etc costs apply. Buyers seeing a physical book selling much less than the eBook of the same title naturally feel swindled.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Seer

The ebook value of title should be somwhat lower than the corresponding physical book. If a particular book is "remaindered" for $5, then the selling market value is $5 for that physical book title. Under agency pricing, the same eBook title should be sold for less than $5 as none of the material, storage, retail, etc costs apply. Buyers seeing a physical book selling much less than the eBook of the same title naturally feel swindled.

There is no need "to get rid of inventory" for ebooks. So including them in a race to the bottom doesn't necessarily makes sense (they might be able to sell the ebook more expensively elsewhere). Just get the pbook and be happy that you got such a great deal.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Seer

The ebook value of title should be somwhat lower than the corresponding physical book. If a particular book is "remaindered" for $5, then the selling market value is $5 for that physical book title. Under agency pricing, the same eBook title should be sold for less than $5 as none of the material, storage, retail, etc costs apply. Buyers seeing a physical book selling much less than the eBook of the same title naturally feel swindled.

That's a ridiculous argument. Books are remaindered to get rid of surplus stock. There's no such things as "surplus stock" of an eBook.

[patrickt]

Some of the bargain ebooks aren't just to get you to the "store" but also to get you to reading certain authors. Assume you're a publisher and you have an author you think is good. You put one of his books on the freebie list and if people like it, they might get another from that author.

Why are older books sometimes fairly pricey? I like older books. I was disappointed when finding Chester Himes or even Rex Stout showed books that weren't cheap. Well, if you're looking for books by one of those authors then you actual have an interest beyond, "This might be good." They're priced accordingly. Not as high as the new hot wunderkind but not a bargain, either. Unless, you actually want that author.

I get plenty of books I enjoy to read and I have no sympathy for the "I'm entitled" folks.

[Synamon]

Originally Posted by Beryll Snyder

There are plenty of ebook bargains. Amazon as well as others have free ebook days and many authors are giving their products away for free. Naturally there is no physical overstock. If you consider this as imbalance between supply(the wish of the author to be read) and demand, it seems to amount to the same thing.

You are right, there will be ebook bargains, but it's a different mechanism. From the consumer's point of view these deals might seem similar to remaindering books, but the goal is different.

What you are describing are advertising or marketing promotions really. The technology of ebooks opens up different avenues to reach readers, another example is the ability to download a sample of an ebook. The give-aways get eyeballs reading an author's product with the hope that they'll like what they see and buy some of the author's other books or generate some positive word of mouth about the book/author.

[crossi]

True there is no such thing as surplus ebooks, still if you've spent money producing an ebook and no one is buying it you might as well try selling it at surplus prices in the hope of at least getting something back. Or even giving it away and writing it off as a tax loss in the hopes that someone would read it and like it enough to buy your next book.

[SilverBear]

Originally Posted by CJJ

Thanks SilverBear. Points taken.

One place to start would be 1) Don't blame the customer and 2) Don't go out of your way to piss the customer off. Those two ideas are very technology proof.

Yup! As a former owner of a bookstore/"alternative whatnot shoppe" I am certainly WAY sympathetic to those of us on the supply end of the retail chain. But thou hast spoken the truth.

A big problem in eBook sales --as far as the setting of policy goes-- is that the Big Men (of whatever sex) most likely never had to make a living dealing face-to-face with the Little People who actually spend their money. IMNSHO, nobody ought to get an MBA who hasn't worked six months in face-to-face retail and at least six months as a wholesale jobber.

Yes: theoretical knowledge is essential to understanding the big picture in business. But there is no substitute whatsoever for the experience of dealing with real people, real customers, and understanding them ONE AT A TIME.

For many customers, their feelings about how they are being treated mean as much --and sometimes more-- than a dollar or two difference at the checkout.