No updates for current iLiad MobiPocket Reader

wallcraft · 06-03-2008, 10:42 PM

I originally saw this mentioned on mobipocket's forums, but Karel (iRex Community Manager) in the iRex forum thread When will iRex's version of Mobipocket add features? said:

Quote:

There will be no new features introduced in the current Mobipocket viewer. The reason for this is because we are working on a viewer frame work. This viewer frame work will make it possible to easily add additional format support by both the community and iRex. In addition each feature developed for the viewer framework will be available to all supported formats.

This is bad news in the short term, since the iLiad MobiPocket reader is very feature poor, but iRex is probably right in the long term to ditch the entire thing and start again.

Is iRex really capable of generating a viewer framework from scratch? I think it would actually be easier, and technically superior, to start over using FBReader as the basis for all viewers. It already meets the "easy to add new formats" and "new features" applies to "all supported formats" criteria. Note that FBReader can now in principle support (licensed) MOBI DRM by distributing a binary only version with this included.

lee1234 · 06-04-2008, 12:35 AM

Guess more people will be buying Cybook instead of the Iliad.

Adam B. · 06-04-2008, 06:14 AM

I suspect the biggest challenge with their viewer framework app will be scribbles and how to handle it with text resizing. Since FBReader can't handle scribbles or PDF's, I don't know if that'd be the best choice.

DonRobodroid · 06-04-2008, 06:29 AM

A framework supporting the unique features of the iLiad would be absolutely fantastic.

However, I'm a bit afraid that whipping this up will take a long time, perhaps longer than many potential buyers (or even owners) are willing to wait.

Not losing the Time to Market window is a bit of the essence here, I think...

Cheers,
- Don [:-], who can think of at least 100,000 Nice To Haves...

Nergal · 06-04-2008, 07:11 AM

I think the framework is in fact the best solution. Though it'll take some time it is better than having several readers with basically the same purpose (mobipocket, iPDF, FB-Reader, minimo for html, ...) and every single one occupying in the sum more time than one big effort. I love mobi-pocket books for their dictionary support, but the menu bar and pages row sucks, if one knows how beautiful it can be with fullscreen-iPdf.
I'm spoiled from the Palm eReader

and it's options.

So I hope the best.

cheers,
Nergal

lowmagnet · 06-04-2008, 07:36 AM

I like the "feature" where it suddenly jumps ahead like 20 pages (due to reformatting) and I have to click backwards.

DonRobodroid · 06-04-2008, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nergal

I'm spoiled from the Palm eReader

and it's options.

Yeah, me too.

And quite frankly, spoiled from its sheer speed when it comes to looking up something...

Cheers,
- Don [:-]

ampersandrew · 06-04-2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

Note that FBReader can now in principle support (licensed) MOBI DRM by distributing a binary only version with this included.

No, it can't. FBReader is GPL code, distributing a binary only copy of the FBReader is a violation of the GPL. It can't happen unless the FBReader authors change the licensing on their code. I do not believe this will be happening. In fact, I doubt it will ever happen.

GregS · 06-04-2008, 09:15 AM

I am biased, I have an iliad.

I am frankly disappointed with all the readers so far, and not just those available for the iliad. So starting from scratch is, in my books, a good way forward and I don't mind waiting.

I could make plenty of suggestions, one, if they are reading, is a CSS dropaway framework, a full implementation of CSS, forget the actual element tags, don't worry about what is a paragraph or not, or what is a title, but as the user increases the font size drop-off CSS layout features in a step by step and predictable way.

The principle is that the greater the relative display area (area of size in proportion to font size), the closer the ebook to the publisher's design (including pagation). Reduce the effective viewing area (ie increase the font relative to the actual screen), drop pagation, drop margins, drop heading decoration, drop "drop Caps", drop justifictation, change font, reduce spaces etc.

A collapsing bag in other words.

The point being, is that it is a mistake to rely on expecting particular elements in designing reading software.

wallcraft · 06-04-2008, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampersandrew

No, it can't. FBReader is GPL code, distributing a binary only copy of the FBReader is a violation of the GPL. It can't happen unless the FBReader authors change the licensing on their code.

As you say, it can only be done by the authors of the code. FBReader's authors are prepared to do this, but it does make accepting outside contributions to the standard version more difficult. See FBReader's GPL and Contribution Guidelenes.

wallcraft · 06-04-2008, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam B.

I suspect the biggest challenge with their viewer framework app will be scribbles and how to handle it with text resizing. Since FBReader can't handle scribbles or PDF's, I don't know if that'd be the best choice.

FBReader would need several enhancements including: a) dictionary, b) bookmarks/scribbles, c) style sheets. Note that FBReader already has dictionary support on a few platforms. The "framework" argument works for FBReader too, add dictionary support or scribbles and these are available for 12 ebook formats and counting. There is also the advantage that you don't have to develop on the iLiad.

The FBReader developers were originally opposed to adding PDF support, but they listened to their users and now their Electronic Book Formats page says:

Quote:

pdf This format is not supported. Files in this format may contain just text as well as image representation of pages. We plan to include PDF support in FBReader: first support for files that are using text only.

DonRobodroid's time to market point is also in favor of FBReader, particularly if it was originally released without PDF support.

Shaggy · 06-04-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonRobodroid

However, I'm a bit afraid that whipping this up will take a long time, perhaps longer than many potential buyers (or even owners) are willing to wait.

Not losing the Time to Market window is a bit of the essence here, I think...

Although it was just reported on Mobileread recently, iRex has been talking about a common framework for the various viewers for a pretty long time. It's not like they're just starting to work on it now.

RobertJSawyer · 06-04-2008, 06:54 PM

I started the original discussion of this on the iRex iLiad forum. But it should be noted that this reply from Mobipocket tech support somewhat contradicts what was said on the iRex forum. See this post on the Mobi forum:

http://www.mobipocket.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11136

in which Mobi_Vincent said on June 2, 2008:

Quote:

We are working with iRex for the new Mobipocket viewer for the Iliad. Be sure this second version will be better !

At the very least, this implies a role by Mobipocket programmers in helping create the new iRex viewer framework.

----------------
ROBERT J. SAWYER, Science Fiction Writer
Hugo Award winner for HOMINIDS
http://www.sfwriter.com * sawyer@sfwriter.com
----------------

Shaggy · 06-05-2008, 10:14 AM

It probably just means that Mobipocket is helping iRex integrate the mobipocket library into their new framework. They pretty much have to be involved, the mobipocket format isn't an open standard. The only way to parse/render a mobipocket file is with the library that mobipocket writes. They're not going to just turn over the full specs and let iRex create their own reader completely from scratch.

I don't think that contradicts anything iRex has said.

HarryT · 06-07-2008, 10:52 AM

It's a shame to hear that the Mobi reader won't be updated on the iLiad. It has one "show-stopping" lack for me - no bookmarks. I absolutely require bookmarks for proof-reading the books I create, and their lack was the main reason I sold my iLiad and bought the CyBook. The iLiad is the only implementation of the Mobi Reader (AFAIK) which doesn't implement bookmarks.

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06-04-2008, 12:35 AM	#2
lee1234 Enthusiast Posts: 42 Karma: 55 Join Date: May 2006 Device: Sony Reader, Nokia E61	Guess more people will be buying Cybook instead of the Iliad.

06-04-2008, 06:14 AM	#3
Adam B. Addicted to Porting Posts: 1,697 Karma: 7194 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Indianapolis, IN Device: iRex iLiad, Nokia 770, Samsung i760	I suspect the biggest challenge with their viewer framework app will be scribbles and how to handle it with text resizing. Since FBReader can't handle scribbles or PDF's, I don't know if that'd be the best choice.

06-04-2008, 06:29 AM	#4
DonRobodroid Paper?! Who needs paper? Posts: 38 Karma: 28 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Germany Device: iLiad v2, iPhone 3GS	A framework supporting the unique features of the iLiad would be absolutely fantastic. However, I'm a bit afraid that whipping this up will take a long time, perhaps longer than many potential buyers (or even owners) are willing to wait. Not losing the Time to Market window is a bit of the essence here, I think... Cheers, - Don [:-], who can think of at least 100,000 Nice To Haves...

06-04-2008, 07:11 AM	#5
Nergal eBuchReisender Posts: 41 Karma: 208 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Münster Device: Palm Tungsten-E, iLiad	I think the framework is in fact the best solution. Though it'll take some time it is better than having several readers with basically the same purpose (mobipocket, iPDF, FB-Reader, minimo for html, ...) and every single one occupying in the sum more time than one big effort. I love mobi-pocket books for their dictionary support, but the menu bar and pages row sucks, if one knows how beautiful it can be with fullscreen-iPdf. I'm spoiled from the Palm eReader and it's options. So I hope the best. cheers, Nergal

06-04-2008, 07:36 AM	#6
lowmagnet Junior Member Posts: 6 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2007 Device: none	I like the "feature" where it suddenly jumps ahead like 20 pages (due to reformatting) and I have to click backwards.

06-04-2008, 09:15 AM	#9
GregS Zealot Posts: 107 Karma: 308 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Perth Australia Device: EZ Reader 5", Iliad	I am biased, I have an iliad. I am frankly disappointed with all the readers so far, and not just those available for the iliad. So starting from scratch is, in my books, a good way forward and I don't mind waiting. I could make plenty of suggestions, one, if they are reading, is a CSS dropaway framework, a full implementation of CSS, forget the actual element tags, don't worry about what is a paragraph or not, or what is a title, but as the user increases the font size drop-off CSS layout features in a step by step and predictable way. The principle is that the greater the relative display area (area of size in proportion to font size), the closer the ebook to the publisher's design (including pagation). Reduce the effective viewing area (ie increase the font relative to the actual screen), drop pagation, drop margins, drop heading decoration, drop "drop Caps", drop justifictation, change font, reduce spaces etc. A collapsing bag in other words. The point being, is that it is a mistake to rely on expecting particular elements in designing reading software.

06-05-2008, 10:14 AM	#14
Shaggy Wizard Posts: 4,293 Karma: 529619 Join Date: May 2007 Device: iRex iLiad, DR800SG	It probably just means that Mobipocket is helping iRex integrate the mobipocket library into their new framework. They pretty much have to be involved, the mobipocket format isn't an open standard. The only way to parse/render a mobipocket file is with the library that mobipocket writes. They're not going to just turn over the full specs and let iRex create their own reader completely from scratch. I don't think that contradicts anything iRex has said.

06-07-2008, 10:52 AM	#15
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,560 Karma: 93980341 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	It's a shame to hear that the Mobi reader won't be updated on the iLiad. It has one "show-stopping" lack for me - no bookmarks. I absolutely require bookmarks for proof-reading the books I create, and their lack was the main reason I sold my iLiad and bought the CyBook. The iLiad is the only implementation of the Mobi Reader (AFAIK) which doesn't implement bookmarks.