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View Poll Results: Which would you vote for
Copyright forever 32 21.77%
Fully do away with copyright 115 78.23%
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:49 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Sil_liS View Post
Actually I was talking about the people who download books from Project Gutenberg and sell them on Amazon as kindle books. The books are free, but someone still sells them.
They have all the rights to do that, just like anyone else. Just like free software too, Stallman blessing and all.

You also have the rights to give them the finger and laugh at clueless dumbasses who fall for it.

If someone is willing to take the PD works and include better typography or layout and include historical research or criticism and all, I'd certainly be willing to pay for that.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:08 PM   #152
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This question really amounts to "do you prefer the status quo?"

Nothing is released into the public domain for 70 years. That means that nothing written in your or my lifetime will ever enter the public domain, as far as we are concerned. From our viewpoint, we already have "copyright forever."

So if the only other choice were to be to get rid of copyright, I'd take it.

Last edited by Harmon; 01-19-2012 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:20 PM   #153
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This question really amounts to "do you prefer the status quo?"

Nothing is released into the public domain for 75 years. That means that nothing written in your or my lifetime will ever enter the public domain, as far as we are concerned. From our viewpoint, we already have "copyright forever."
That's the choice that the American people have made, via their elected representatives. Most of us live in countries where new works do enter the public domain every year.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:25 PM   #154
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That's the choice that the American people have made, via their elected representatives. Most of us live in countries where new works do enter the public domain every year.
Well, yes, but I think he means that for new works it makes little difference to us whether the copyright is life+70 or unlimited.

I very much doubt that Harry Potter, for example, will fall into the public domain in my lifetime, nor my children's lifetimes.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:38 PM   #155
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It's close to an impossible choice - but if forced - I'd chose copyright over no copyright. Creators need protection. Personally I think Canada's 50 years is quite fair, though I doubt it will remain that way, due to external pressure.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:42 PM   #156
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You also have the rights to give them the finger and laugh at clueless dumbasses who fall for it.
I don't think all these people are CD's. I think that Amazon has made the Kindle ecosystem so easy and consumer friendly that people will pay to use it even when they can, with very little more effort, get the ebooks for free.

If you think about it, this kind of demonstrates the fallacy behind so much of the anti-piracy rhetoric. Project Gutenberg ebooks are analogous to pirated ebooks - i.e., they are available for free if you bother to look. And yet, when the "pirated" books are available on a commercial site, people will pay for them. A lot of these people might be clueless, but I'll bet that a lot of them are willing to cough up a buck or two to save time & effort.

I mean, you can make your coffee at home everyday & carry it in your thermos cup, or you can join the line at Starbucks & pay three times as much. Most people seem to be standing in line.

What's interesting to me is that in a way, the OP has given us a question that is rapidly being emptied of meaning, from a consumer viewpoint, because of "streaming." That is to say, when the content is cheap enough, it might as well be free. In fact, the very idea of "owning" content as a consumer is vanishing.

(As I sit here listening to Spotify...) (Zoe Keating, Tetrishead, on One Cello x 16: Natoma http://www.amazon.com/One-Cello-X-16.../dp/B000CAKQ0M) http://www.zoekeating.com/)

It seems to me that the problem with the copyright laws is being isolated to the availability of the artwork to other artists. Because of the lengthy copyright period, fewer artists have access to other artists' work as something to incorporate into their own. On the one hand, this means that fewer orchestras will be playing Peter & the Wolf, http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...ight-decision/ meaning that consumers' access to live classical music of the modern era will be diminished. OTOH, those orchestras who record the piece will put it on Spotify, meaning that other consumers will have it whenever they want.

I think that copyright, as it is currently conceived, is beginning to be contrary to its purpose. This point was touched on by two of the Justices of the Supreme Court in Golan v. Holder http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/10-545.pdf

Last edited by Harmon; 01-19-2012 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:47 PM   #157
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Well, yes, but I think he means that for new works it makes little difference to us whether the copyright is life+70 or unlimited.

I very much doubt that Harry Potter, for example, will fall into the public domain in my lifetime, nor my children's lifetimes.
Yep, that's my point.

OTOH, as the electrons eat away at the analog universe, copyright may go the way of Prohibition. That is to say, it will be replaced with some other sytem (liquor licenses, brewing permits) with some restrictive impact, but nothing like the totalitarian reach of the current system.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:50 PM   #158
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That's the choice that the American people have made, via their elected representatives. Most of us live in countries where new works do enter the public domain every year.
No, it really is not. One dictate does not mean one dictate forever. The Constitution is not a suicide pact. If we can make elected representatives understand that the economy is and will continue to change they should address what stealing from American citizens is all about.

Copyright is a compact with the citizens through the Constitution to have a monopoly for a short time to encourage science and arts. It is not some entities' personal slave maker. If anyone (or thing) wants copyright forever let's develop a cost analysis of what they should pay in taxes for joint services paid for by everyone to support their business.

As networks become a part of who and what we are as a being, community, state, country and world laws will have to evolve to encompass reality. That's why SOPA is failing. Industries see no problem taking away free speech or convicting without a trial. They have had their Congressional representatives try to vote that into law. Those representatives are seeing the result of being technically ignorant, now.
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:43 PM   #159
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That's the choice that the American people have made, via their elected representatives.
That seems a bit simplified. I haven't looked into it much, but from what I gather now, this is a matter of many people not knowing or caring enough about it to pressure or protest against the ever-expanding copyright laws and lengths.

The huge corporations that this helps do know what is in their own best interests, and have plenty of money to throw around lobbying for what they want.
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:04 PM   #160
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The problem is, with the way the system is, we're somewhat limited. We're often given two choices, and on many subjects (as seen by the SOPA/PIPA hoohah), many have been in similar mindset (on this issue, till people got pissed at them). No one is exactly what you want, on every subject, and many politicians are very alike, so at election time, you're often given two bad choices (happens more often than getting two good choices).
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:15 PM   #161
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I dont Mind Copyright What I Hate Is I BUY an eBook & Stuck reading it Only on a certain eReader Do to DRM!!

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Old 01-19-2012, 07:35 PM   #162
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As a person who has written both articles and music for my church to use, I fully support the doing away with copyright. I would love to see anyone be able to use both the written word and music freely, no matter who writes it. Isn't it a shame that things have gotten so out of hand? You can't even sing "Happy Birthday" if you are on the wait staff in a restaurant, because it's copyrighted. I see that literature is going the same way, with sellers of ebooks stating that you aren't buying the book, you're only buying a license to read the book. I understand that some people depend on royalties for their living. I can appreciate that. But somehow, I think that the only ones really benefiting from this are the big publishing/recording companies. Of course, this is my own personal opinion. I don't intend to participate in "piracy" just because I don't agree with the laws. But I do wish we could do something to change them.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:16 PM   #163
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As a person who has written both articles and music for my church to use, I fully support the doing away with copyright. I would love to see anyone be able to use both the written word and music freely, no matter who writes it...

I understand that some people depend on royalties for their living. I can appreciate that. But somehow, I think that the only ones really benefiting from this are the big publishing/recording companies.
Both sides of this argument are a bit contradictory: Do you want all works to be free, or do you want the creators of the works to be able to profit? You can't have both.

Also, don't forget there is another group involved here: Independent artists and creators that don't use the big publishing/recording companies. Copyright protects them most of all.
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:28 AM   #164
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Both sides of this argument are a bit contradictory: Do you want all works to be free, or do you want the creators of the works to be able to profit? You can't have both.
I don't want the works to be free in the way that other people want them to be free. I just want to be able to be able to show how my reader displays a page in a book without it being illegal.
If you go by the current copyright laws you can't record something if there is music playing in the background, or a TV is on in a background. Photos of objects are 2D copies of 3D objects so if the object is under copyright, the photos are illegal as well. The only reason why people support copyright law is because they don't know how little they can do under it.

And when it comes to the author's profit, you seem to be ignoring that fact that authors were selling their works before copyright as well. Some authors were cheated out of their profits before copyright, and some are cheated out of their profits now. Publishers provide a service to the authors just like the government provides a service to the citizens but nobody would be happy to be taxed 75% of their due income and think oh well, the government is expensive to run, this is fine.
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:31 AM   #165
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I don't want the works to be free in the way that other people want them to be free. I just want to be able to be able to show how my reader displays a page in a book without it being illegal.
You can do. Showing a single page of a book for purposes of illustration counts as "fair use" by anyone's standards.
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