Publishers still missing the point on e-book prices

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by JoeD

Maybe because those people like books from authors that are both 99p indies and part of the agency publishers? I'm likewise happy with many of the cheaper purchases I've made but there are still authors I'd like to read that I'm currently passing on because of the agency prices.

Maybe in time, the soft spot I have for some authors who I currently no longer read due to prices will diminish and be replaced by newer authors who's book prices I find more palatable? Maybe it won't, maybe prices will change and it becomes a non issue (indie books increasing or agency books decreasing) Either way, I think you can be happy buying indie books and still be disgruntled about agency pricing, it doesn't need to be one or the other.

I wasn't the one who said I was "very happy" - now it's not one or the other but it's a little difficult being very happy and unhappy at the same time!!!

[sabredog]

You really do not get it do you?

I was happy that I got some great books written by indie authors. I made the comment that an favoured author's ebook from an agency publisher was expensive.

Did I mention I was unhappy even once?

I made the comparison to highlight the price difference.

Go back and read my post again.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by sabredog

You really do not get it do you?

I was happy that I got some great books written by indie authors. I made the comment that an favoured author's ebook from an agency publisher was expensive.

Did I mention I was unhappy even once?

I made the comparison to highlight the price difference.

Go back and read my post again.

You don't either... I wasn't targeting you (unless you like feeling got at), I was commenting on the way some people keep saying how happy they are with the indies (simply as a result of your post being the latest to extol the poster's happiness)... but they keep saying how happy they are and at the same time moaning about higher priced books... when I'm happy about something, i don't give a ***** about other things because I'm happy... got it!!

[stonetools]

Just to pour some more fuel on the fire, here is noted SF author John Scalzi on complaints about ebook pricing:

You know, I have several objects in the house capable of reading an electronic book, ranging from a dedicated Nook e-reader to an iPad to a desktop computer. I buy electronic books all the time, and occasionally I will come across one priced higher than I want to pay. What do I do then? Easy: I don’t buy it and I move on with my life. I don’t post about how I didn’t buy it because I thought the price was too high, etc. Because life is short and there are really more interesting things to talk about and to do with one’s time.

I think it’s important to understand that eBooks are not special snowflakes; they’re just books in electronic form. As someone who prefers to read in eBook form, you are not substantially different from someone who prefers hardcovers, or trade paperbacks, or mass market paperbacks. If someone who preferred paperbacks (or at the very least paperback pricing) showed up on my site on a regular basis to whine and moan about how books should always be priced at that paperback level, on a comment thread that is meant to be on another subject entirely, I would find them tiresome too. Books: They have variable price points! Based on release dates, consumer interest and format, among many other factors! If you don’t like the price point, wait — it’ll come down eventually. Or visit the library (which in many cases you can do with electronic books now) and borrow the thing legally.

LINK

[JoeD]

Originally Posted by elcreative

I wasn't the one who said I was "very happy" - now it's not one or the other but it's a little difficult being very happy and unhappy at the same time!!!

I didn't say you were

You said

Can you tell me why, if everybody is so happy with

the likewise in my reply was referring to all those who are happy with or "like the poster you were responding to, I'm also happy about..."

True you can't be happy and unhappy at the exact same time, but then I never said that. I said disgruntled as in annoyed, angry, not satisfied (I'd lean more to not satisfied than angry though, I find it hard to be angry over pricing when there's alternatives, I just don't buy it). However, even if I had said unhappy, you could have just taken it to mean, happy that you can buy a cheap good book, then unhappy that when you want a book by an author you like who's agency priced, it's more than you're willing to pay, but happy again as you find more cheap books from new authors to read.

There's going to be a transition period where those of us who read main stream a lot will be less than pleased with agency pricing, yet won't have made a 100% shift to indie books and hence will occasionally feel disgruntled/whatever about the agency prices. In time some may make a 100% transition after finding a sufficient number of indie authors that they no longer want books by any agency authors, but until then, there's going to be conflicting feelings on the issue.

Either way, what I said was, disgruntled about agency pricing, as in, not satisfied by the prices and I didn't say I felt the two at the same time. Think of it more as a see-saw feeling

but they keep saying how happy they are and at the same time moaning about higher priced books... when I'm happy about something, i don't give a ***** about other things because I'm happy... got it!!

I can be "happy" that I've got a job and yet unhappy about the job I've got. As to which you feel would depend on the angle you're looking from at that particular point in time.

When you're talking to people who earn more, you might feel unhappy about your own earnings, when you're talking to people who have no job, you might feel happy that you've actually got one.

I see nothing wrong with people been happy to buy/read indie books but still wish they could read some of the authors that are on agency pricing.

Saying you're happy with something doesn't always mean you'd never want anything more.

[spindlegirl]

There are consumer reviews all over the place for various things - I used to view consumer reviews on places like epinions and one of the headings to rate was "Price" and whether you thought the price was reasonable given the quality. In some reviews I would see scathing reports about the price of everything from shampoo to sewing machines.

E-books are yet one of those things that people, as consumers are going to use critical thinking to decide whether they think something is worth the price.

E-Books are not special snowflakes. Exactly. John Scalzi is correct. Possible buyers or non buyers are going to say why or why not they believe $xx.xx is a ripoff for something.

It's just that on the flip side we have news articles complaining that nobody is buying from Amazon despite the boom in Kindle sales, opting for Libraries, public domain, cheaper sources, and darknet sources. Comment after comment below said news article suggesting "well, perhaps make it accessible price-wise for everybody and you'd get more buyers".

I know a few people who bought e-readers thinking they were to e-books what ipod is to music. I know someone who buys a ton of music songs because hey, it's the price of a few Timbits. I know lots of people who were looking into e-readers who chose the one which gives them the easiest access to the library, because the same books, without borrowing them, are out of their reach. I am one of them. My T1 allows me instant access (or being put on a waiting list) to e-books in the same way I borrowed paper books.

People vocalizing about what they find fair is not going to go away.

[TechnoCat]

Originally Posted by Fbone

He claims to have sold 800,000 copies this year alone. And yet most books have fewer than 25 reviews.

I've read thousands of books in my life, and reviewed maybe five (excluding sheet music books.)

On Amazon's Best Selling SF list right now, George Orwell's 1984 only has 1700 reviews. Michael Siemsen's The Dig is #30 on their best selling SF list... and has 23 reviews. #33 has 18 reviews, #34 has... zero.

Suppose your casual approach to correlation was applied to intelligence correlated to patents and companies founded - would that seem fair and legitimate to you?

[stonetools]

I know a few people who bought e-readers thinking they were to e-books what ipod is to music. I know someone who buys a ton of music songs because hey, it's the price of a few Timbits. I know lots of people who were looking into e-readers who chose the one which gives them the easiest access to the library, because the same books, without borrowing them, are out of their reach. I am one of them. My T1 allows me instant access (or being put on a waiting list) to e-books in the same way I borrowed paper books.

People vocalizing about what they find fair is not going to go away.

I will say that there seems to be a LOT more vocalizing about ebook prices than, say, the price of Starbucks coffee. Indeed, a lot of folks who seem OK with paying $4.99 for a cup of coffee bitch about $9.99 for the price of an ebook! Comes down to priorities, I guess.

You can't compare ebooks to songs. THe proper comparision to an ebook is the album, which costs, guess what,$9.99 -19.99.
The closest equivalent to the song is the short story or longform journalistic article, which Amazon calls "Kindle Singles" and prices at $0.99-2.99.

You can, if you like, fill your ereader with nothing but free and bargain content . In that way the Kindle is like an iPod. It's your choice.
So far as I can tell, Amazon's ebook sales are great, and are rising in tandem to their sales of ereaders, which are also great, according to Amazon.

[emalvick]

People vent because there is something to vent at. I'm not sure the ranting about e-book prices (which I know I think about myself) is any more than anything else. We (on these forums and as readers) just notice it more. People were ranting about CD and DVD prices a while back just as they are about books now.

The interesting thing when I think of CD's and Music is that when the CD's are cheaper than the digital albums (and it does occur), it is very easy to convert the CD to a digital format. It's not that easy with books.

With movies and dvd's, the prices have seemed to come back down a bit, but then services like Netflix have made the need to even buy DVD's minimal.

Books on the otherhand are still in an infancy with regard to digital vs. traditional format. Heck other forms like music and film haven't even figured it out, yet.

The frustration I see is mostly because we have two different business models operating through one company. It is frustrating to see physical books going for a price less than electronic, yet I think what is lost is that the ebooks are often cheaper than the actual cover prices. I have a hard time seeing that as browsing your ebook retailer, you can't help but see the physical price and the ebook price. The cover-price is difficult to find.

The other big frustration is the fact that the ebook prices fluctuate quite a bit in the agency world. I often add books to my Kindle Wishlist in hopes of waiting for their prices to come down to my level. I keep expecting an ebook price drop matching up with the shift from Hardcover to Paperback that most of us grew up with. If I want a book during the hard-cover stage, then I'll get it. But if I can wait, I do. I can't help but notice that some ebooks on my list actually go up in price. A year ago, I purchased the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo trilogy for about $6.99 a book (maybe a bit more for the third since it was new). I now notice that the ebooks are now all at $9.99 because of the movie. I can't blame the publisher, but this has not been my only observed increase.

I've had a few Steinbeck books on my list to buy, and many are now well over $10. They were all around $9.99 when I put them on my list.

Ultimately, I don't buy the books because I don't need to. As others have mentioned, there are plenty of Indie authors out there, libraries, deals, etc to draw from.

I suppose the only thing that is needed that would perhaps be ideal is some sort of service akin to Netflix. I would love some type of subscription service where I could read all the books I want (one at a time) for a cost per month. Amazon Prime is getting there, but one book a month is not ideal. It would also be nice to have the flexibility to have it per device (perhaps similar to the multiple DVD at a time format of Netflix).

Libraries sort of serve a similar purpose, but that is a whole other frustration. Waiting lists, limited availability, etc all make it a challenging alternative to buying ebooks. Perhaps libraries could improve their offerings, but it can be a burden on the library system if they have to foot the bill to the publishers.

Ultimately, I hope this is an iterative process. I can't see the current agency models for ebooks standing up. The success of indie authors and publishers will become more pronounced and noticeable ultimately requiring some changes. Patience is all that is needed.

Originally Posted by stonetools

I will say that there seems to be a LOT more vocalizing about ebook prices than, say, the price of Starbucks coffee. Indeed, a lot of folks who seem OK with paying $4.99 for a cup of coffee bitch about $9.99 for the price of an ebook! Comes down to priorities, I guess.

One big difference: you talk about books and you talk over coffee. What I mean is that you can swap a Starbucks for a Timmies and noone is going to care. If you swap an expensive new release from a popular author with a $1 indie title, noone is going to have a clue what you're talking about.

You can't compare ebooks to songs. THe proper comparision to an ebook is the album, which costs, guess what,$9.99 -19.99.

Different media means that direct comparisons are not going to work very well.

Songs on many albums stand alone fairly well, so an album is more of an anthology. This means that buying a single track is a valid option. You can't say that for chapters in ebooks.

So far as I can tell, Amazon's ebook sales are great, and are rising in tandem to their sales of ereaders, which are also great, according to Amazon.

Is that going to continue when the novelty dies off?

[spindlegirl]

I do fill up my Ereader with free and or loaned materials. And yes, I think Starbucks coffee is way too expensive :-) I drink my husband's home roast, actually.

Thinking e-books are too expensive does not automatically mean one is wasting their money on starbucks. I don't even use cosmetics, and I often boggle at someone who can drop $60 at the drugstore to decorate their face.... we all have things that we are willing to spend money on, and if someone else thinks $15 for an e-book is fine, then who am I to argue? Any more than I can tell someone they don't need to plaster all that stuff on their face. It's what they like and what they spend their money on.

Any opinions I state about why I feel some e-books are inflated in price are purely (I hope this is a given) from my own experience. It's not a complaint, just a matter of fact opinion.

My personal reasoning is that an infinitely reproducible file is just ripe for being able to price it lower. Like having more people be able to eat from a pie that never decreases no matter how many slices are consumed. One file = infinite stock. Also, the DRM for me, lowers the value.

Regarding the amazon complaint news story - I also had temporarily forgotten which thread I was in: I thought I was in this thread where it was linked to a news article about a big boom in Kindle sales over the holidays yet the e-*book* purchases didn't also increase ....

Yes, one cannot compare e-books to ipods, I was talking about people who bought e-readers thinking they could be filled up just as easily, with very inexpensive material of their choice. They assumed that e-books would be just as easy to obtain.

For me most e-books are easy to obtain because I like Austen, Dickens, Les Miserables, etc.... I was like a kid in a candy store for project gutenberg. I was able to get people interested in e-readers because I told all about the gold mine that is MR library and Project Gutenberg. So for me, the e-reader has paid for itself with all the stuff I formerly bought (I actually had spent birthday gift money on $8 book copies from the classic section of a book store), and could replace all that and more.

But for others it's..... "Dickens, ewww I didn't look at Oliver Twist voluntarily after I got my diploma!"

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Not including, of course, miscellaneous "used" books at $2, etc.

I agree: Any ebook at $7US has a hard time getting my money... I'm good with any ebook at $5 or less. $9 or more I'll hardly entertain.

Sometimes I think that maybe, if ebooks could add some "extra" material to the text, similar to DVD's extra features, it might be worth spending more than $9 for an ebook. But usually, I'm damned if I can think of what extra features would be worth that. Research notes? Outlines and drafts? Unused scenes? Character notes? And I'm not sure how desirable that would be from a nobody author (like me, for instance)... but would you pay extra for that stuff if it came from King? Rowling? Comley?

I purchased - twice! in HB - The Rivan Codex by David Eddings (I like to forget she writes with him) http://www.amazon.com/Rivan-Codex-An...5700686&sr=8-1

It's great information for the obsessed (me) and wannabe writers (me as well) in that it details his writing process. The thing is - he released this after he wrote 2 five book series AND 2 "prequels" to the previously written 10 books. He already had a huge following at that time and all the books were written, published and available.

I don't know if I would be willing to buy that after reading only the 1st book in the series.

Also - and this is something authors would be more concerned about than publishers - I would be concerned about releasing that type of information if I wrote series work. Although I had already assumed what Eddings' writing formula was - after reading The Rivan Codex, I could see his formula in ALL of his other works, too. It kind of ruins it for you when you can see one stories formula in unrelated works.

[Synamon]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

Regarding the amazon complaint news story - I also had temporarily forgotten which thread I was in: I thought I was in this thread where it was linked to a news article about a big boom in Kindle sales over the holidays yet the e-*book* purchases didn't also increase ....

Yes, one cannot compare e-books to ipods, I was talking about people who bought e-readers thinking they could be filled up just as easily, with very inexpensive material of their choice. They assumed that e-books would be just as easy to obtain.

For me most e-books are easy to obtain because I like Austen, Dickens, Les Miserables, etc.... I was like a kid in a candy store for project gutenberg. I was able to get people interested in e-readers because I told all about the gold mine that is MR library and Project Gutenberg. So for me, the e-reader has paid for itself with all the stuff I formerly bought (I actually had spent birthday gift money on $8 book copies from the classic section of a book store), and could replace all that and more.

But for others it's..... "Dickens, ewww I didn't look at Oliver Twist voluntarily after I got my diploma!"

Your comments made me wonder if there was a spike in downloads at Project Gutenberg because of Christmas Kindles. Since they conveniently provide pretty charts it was easy to check. Starting Dec 25 overall downloads spiked, but Kindle's share of the total didn't increase that much despite millions of units being added. It will be interesting to see in the months ahead if those numbers shift as new Kindle owners discover Project Gutenberg. Although perhaps they are content to download the available classics that Amazon offers free.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Just to pour some more fuel on the fire, here is noted SF author John Scalzi on complaints about ebook pricing:



LINK

Of course this author is not interested in having lower prices. But these days, when you do want to change something, then you post on the internet and alert others. Hopefully others will agree with us (in this case agree that ebook prices are too high) and stop buying, tell their friends, repost, etc.

Sure, some people may not think much about prices now, but when they read about it on this forum or elsewhere they might wake up -- and slowly there will be more and more of us. And this is what you fear and what we want to happen. So yes, people will continue to complain, get used to it.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Synamon

Your comments made me wonder if there was a spike in downloads at Project Gutenberg because of Christmas Kindles. Since they conveniently provide pretty charts it was easy to check. Starting Dec 25 overall downloads spiked, but Kindle's share of the total didn't increase that much despite millions of units being added. It will be interesting to see in the months ahead if those numbers shift as new Kindle owners discover Project Gutenberg. Although perhaps they are content to download the available classics that Amazon offers free.

Unlike with phone or tablet apps, I am sure that nobody fills their new reader with new books right away. Probably they start loading old books first, or try downloading a few free ones? If the reader was a gift they might take some time to figure things out. There will be a time lag before they start buying.