Which classics fall out of copyright in 2012? - Page 7

Sweetpea · 12-30-2011, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billi

If your father is a builder, builds a house, rents it, suddenly dies, you (and the other heirs) will get all the income from the rental.
If your father is a writer, writes a book, sells many copies, suddenly dies, you (and the other heirs) will get all the income from the book. Where is the problem?
One can debate about the 70 years, but in general it is a good regulation that copyright lasts on after the author has died. There are many many injustices in this world, this really is a very minor one.

There is also another thing that makes having copyrights after the author has died a good thing: copyright is not only about making money but also about being able to decide how and where and if at all the work of an artist will be distributed. It includes the publication of such things as diaries, private letters and unpublished works that now can be kept being handled according to the wishes of the artist and not the public.
And it involves the unchangeability of a work.

Nowhere did I imply that there shouldn't be a copyright after death. The only thing that is croocked is that the copyright lasts till a certain time after the author's death, instead of after first publication. Diaries, private letters, unpublished works, etc, would never revert to the public domain unless the heirs (and/or author) publish them. So, what's the problem? Except that there'll be less money for the publishers (and indirectly to the heirs...)

Billi · 12-30-2011, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Nowhere did I imply that there shouldn't be a copyright after death.

Then I misunderstood your postings a little bit, sorry for that.

Quote:

So, what's the problem? Except that there'll be less money for the publishers (and indirectly to the heirs...)

It's not necessarily about the publishers, in many cases they are granted the rights only for a certain number of years or editions.
It's too easy to always blame the publishers - one shouldn't forget that they are the ones that invest money and take risks.

squawker · 12-31-2011, 03:55 PM

Why does the copyright exist?

By selling a written work, the author is placing it in the public forum. Our society gives him a "copyright" - a wholly artificial monopoly - on the work, because it wants to give him an incentive to create more. This monopoly is *entirely* a creation of law. There is no natural copyright.

The benefit of the copyright bargain for the society is that the work becomes free for all to make use of once the limited period of monopoly runs.

The more limited monopoly periods which the U.S. had in the past did not stifle literary creativity.

So why did the Congress extend the period of monopoly for authors? To view it generously, I suppose you could argue that since the US generates a large number of works of entertainment, the Congress was trying to protect an important industry in the US. On the other hand, you could view it as the Congress selling out the people's benefit of the bargain.

HansTWN · 12-31-2011, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squawker

Why does the copyright exist?

By selling a written work, the author is placing it in the public forum. Our society gives him a "copyright" - a wholly artificial monopoly - on the work, because it wants to give him an incentive to create more. This monopoly is *entirely* a creation of law. There is no natural copyright.

The benefit of the copyright bargain for the society is that the work becomes free for all to make use of once the limited period of monopoly runs.

The more limited monopoly periods which the U.S. had in the past did not stifle literary creativity.

So why did the Congress extend the period of monopoly for authors? To view it generously, I suppose you could argue that since the US generates a large number of works of entertainment, the Congress was trying to protect an important industry in the US. On the other hand, you could view it as the Congress selling out the people's benefit of the bargain.

Aren't you forgetting that in the past (before ebooks) copyright didn't matter to the general population? You still had to buy the pbook, you couldn't get a free copy. So all comparisons with the past make no sense on that basis alone. Obviously copyright wasn't created to give the public access to free material (after the period of protection had expired) because at the time copyright was written you couldn't even get your Shakespeare for free.

And another question, do you owe the people anything "extra" because they protect your private property? We all, including authors, pay for police and law enforcement (and IP rights are enforced a lot less than general property rights!), so why should an author be expected to do more than pay taxes to have his or her work protected?

There is no bargain between copyright holders and society. Just society doing what is right to protect a valuable group of citizens. And exactly as you mentioned, millions of jobs to protect are worth a lot more to society than a few freebies.

The Terminator · 01-01-2012, 12:41 AM

I searched Hemmingway and there are a few downloads available. In a few hours will they be Ok to download or will they still be illegal to download?

Iphinome · 01-01-2012, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Terminator

I searched Hemmingway and there are a few downloads available. In a few hours will they be Ok to download or will they still be illegal to download?

I don't see why the actual downloading would run afoul of any laws but if you torrent you're also uploading and could potentially piss off powers that be in any countries you upload to if the copyright hasn't expired there. The persons offering the downloads might be on the dangerous side of legal but that's hardly your problem.

However I like your odds of avoiding extradition so my advice would be have at.

Billi · 01-01-2012, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Terminator

I searched Hemmingway and there are a few downloads available. In a few hours will they be Ok to download or will they still be illegal to download?

Yes, it's okay. Hemingway is now in the public domain in Canada.

HarryT · 01-01-2012, 04:26 AM

Careful what you advise, Billi. It will only be legal if the specific version that's been uploaded is in the public domain. That's why PG have to be very careful what they use for source material. You can't just assume that an illegally-scanned modern edition of Hemingway is going to be in the public domain in Canada now; it almost certainly isn't, because it will probably contain material added by the publisher that's still protected by copyright.

Billi · 01-01-2012, 08:09 AM

Okay, let's assume that most probably these downloads that The Terminator has found have been scanned illegally. Most probably the cover is still protected by copyright, but besides this, what other rights could be there that we should respect?

HarryT · 01-01-2012, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billi

Okay, let's assume that most probably these downloads that The Terminator has found have been scanned illegally. Most probably the cover is still protected by copyright, but besides this, what other rights could be there that we should respect?

Most commercial editions will probably have things like an introduction and perhaps footnotes - those will almost certainly be protected by copyright. But copyright can protect something as simple as a table of contents. This really is a minefield, unfortunately.

Obviously this may not matter to an individual downloader, but you really do have to take great care if you plan to upload it anywhere.

Blue Tyson · 01-01-2012, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billi

Okay, let's assume that most probably these downloads that The Terminator has found have been scanned illegally. Most probably the cover is still protected by copyright, but besides this, what other rights could be there that we should respect?

Just take the text of the work, get rid of all the crap at the start and the end.

Then do what you like with it.

Billi · 01-01-2012, 08:30 AM

Strictly speaking, I can't do anything with it, as Germany has the 70-year-copyright-law.

Billi · 01-01-2012, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Most commercial editions will probably have things like an introduction and perhaps footnotes - those will almost certainly be protected by copyright. But copyright can protect something as simple as a table of contents. This really is a minefield, unfortunately.

Introduction and such things are clear, but the table of contents? Do you know of any case regarding the toc that has been brought to court?

Blue Tyson · 01-01-2012, 08:49 AM

Geez, if you are worried about that. Chance the numbers to Roman numerals or some such. And the font. And the capitalisation.

Job done.

Blue Tyson · 01-01-2012, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billi

Strictly speaking, I can't do anything with it, as Germany has the 70-year-copyright-law.

Your closest Canadian comrade, then.

12-31-2011, 03:55 PM	#93
squawker Member Posts: 24 Karma: 980 Join Date: Jan 2007 Device: PRS-500	Copyright - A Social Bargain Why does the copyright exist? By selling a written work, the author is placing it in the public forum. Our society gives him a "copyright" - a wholly artificial monopoly - on the work, because it wants to give him an incentive to create more. This monopoly is entirely a creation of law. There is no natural copyright. The benefit of the copyright bargain for the society is that the work becomes free for all to make use of once the limited period of monopoly runs. The more limited monopoly periods which the U.S. had in the past did not stifle literary creativity. So why did the Congress extend the period of monopoly for authors? To view it generously, I suppose you could argue that since the US generates a large number of works of entertainment, the Congress was trying to protect an important industry in the US. On the other hand, you could view it as the Congress selling out the people's benefit of the bargain.

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01-01-2012, 12:41 AM	#95
The Terminator Retired Posts: 2,552 Karma: 37638420 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Vancouver Island Canada Device: Kobo Touch, Optimus One (2.3), Nexus 7 (4.2)	I searched Hemmingway and there are a few downloads available. In a few hours will they be Ok to download or will they still be illegal to download?

01-01-2012, 04:26 AM	#98
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,560 Karma: 93980341 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Careful what you advise, Billi. It will only be legal if the specific version that's been uploaded is in the public domain. That's why PG have to be very careful what they use for source material. You can't just assume that an illegally-scanned modern edition of Hemingway is going to be in the public domain in Canada now; it almost certainly isn't, because it will probably contain material added by the publisher that's still protected by copyright.

01-01-2012, 08:09 AM	#99
Billi Wizard Posts: 3,388 Karma: 14190103 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Berlin Device: Cybook, iRex, PB, Onyx	Okay, let's assume that most probably these downloads that The Terminator has found have been scanned illegally. Most probably the cover is still protected by copyright, but besides this, what other rights could be there that we should respect?

01-01-2012, 08:30 AM	#102
Billi Wizard Posts: 3,388 Karma: 14190103 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Berlin Device: Cybook, iRex, PB, Onyx	Strictly speaking, I can't do anything with it, as Germany has the 70-year-copyright-law.

01-01-2012, 08:49 AM	#104
Blue Tyson Blue Captain Posts: 1,595 Karma: 5000236 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Australia Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G,Huawei Ideos X3,Kobo Mini	Geez, if you are worried about that. Chance the numbers to Roman numerals or some such. And the font. And the capitalisation. Job done.