Publishers still missing the point on e-book prices

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Instead of complaining about ebook prices, maybe people should work at being smarter shoppers. They would better achieve their reading aims that way, IMO .

A lot are. They are buying more indie author ebooks or moving right way from buying ebooks at all. The local local ebook store at 21 Darknet Street is much more alluring when ebooks are priced way over what customers WANT to pay. Market forces....

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Instead of complaining about ebook prices, maybe people should work at being smarter shoppers. They would better achieve their reading aims that way, IMO.

If their reading aims are "more books available in my current budget," it wouldn't. The solution of "they should check several different websites and subscribe to feeds that offer occasional discounts and also should track all their favorite authors and get on publishers' mailing lists in order to maybe catch the book at a low enough price" is for people with time to burn.

If publishers don't like to hear the griping over ebook prices they can lower prices. If not, publishers can cope with the fact that, whether or not there's enough profit, if a good portion of the public is unhappy with the prices, they'll talk about it.

There's nothing immoral about pointing out that some companies are greedy. And while people have the option of just not doing business with the companies they think are too greedy--they also have the option of complaining, whether or not they choose to do business with those companies. There is no moral imperative to be quiet about what we find upsetting, just because not everyone agrees.

(I found my simple way of dealing with overpriced books. Novels that cost more than $6? Not on my radar at all. When I run out of less expensive reading material, I'll reconsider. 4 days ago, 2500+ new free stories went live on AO3. It'll be a while.)

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by tompe

Why do you think you have legally bought it? I think that fooling people or computers to buy something you should not be able to buy is a kind of piracy also.

That makes no sense, "paying pirates", lol. If you believe this, then you must also speak up against DRM removal, because that is also something you are not "supposed" to do.

Those "geo-restrictions" are so relaxed on purpose because the retailers do want to sell to us, they are just going through the motions to avoid being sued. So the only one that got hurt is the publisher in the country where the buyer is located --- in my case there usually is no publisher for the English version. Geo-restrictions are a contractual matter between the retailer and the author/publisher, they don't concern me. I get the books and pay for them. End of story.

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Those "geo-restrictions" are so relaxed on purpose because the retailers do want to sell to us, they are just going through the motions to avoid being sued. So the only one that got hurt is the publisher in the country where the buyer is located --- in my case there usually is no publisher for the English version. Geo-restrictions are a contractual matter between the retailer and the author/publisher, they don't concern me. I get the books and pay for them. End of story.

And that is capitalism, no?

Globalisation means get the best deal wherever. That is what they have been teaching us for some time now, these oligopolist types. ;-)

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Blue Tyson

And that is capitalism, no?

Globalisation means get the best deal wherever. That is what they have been teaching us for some time now, these oligopolist types. ;-)

Did they ever invent a system in which everything works?

I have seen the alternatives to capitalism first hand in Asia, all I can say is "no thank you!". In the end, only capitalism worked to pull the general population out of poverty.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

If their reading aims are "more books available in my current budget," it wouldn't. The solution of "they should check several different websites and subscribe to feeds that offer occasional discounts and also should track all their favorite authors and get on publishers' mailing lists in order to maybe catch the book at a low enough price" is for people with time to burn.

If publishers don't like to hear the griping over ebook prices they can lower prices. If not, publishers can cope with the fact that, whether or not there's enough profit, if a good portion of the public is unhappy with the prices, they'll talk about it.

There's nothing immoral about pointing out that some companies are greedy. And while people have the option of just not doing business with the companies they think are too greedy--they also have the option of complaining, whether or not they choose to do business with those companies. There is no moral imperative to be quiet about what we find upsetting, just because not everyone agrees.

(I found my simple way of dealing with overpriced books. Novels that cost more than $6? Not on my radar at all. When I run out of less expensive reading material, I'll reconsider. 4 days ago, 2500+ new free stories went live on AO3. It'll be a while.)

I'm sorry, but my strategy is no more time consuming than your strategy of going around various fanfic and indie sites and subscribing to Baen's webscriptions. The point is that it is rather easy to find all the cheap reads you want these days,without complaining and without breaking the law. If youwant to complain, by all means go ahead. It does get tiresome, though.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by sabredog

A lot are. They are buying more indie author ebooks or moving right way from buying ebooks at all. The local local ebook store at 21 Darknet Street is much more alluring when ebooks are priced way over what customers WANT to pay. Market forces....

( Shrug) The something for nothing crowd will always be able to justify their depredations .
There is no moral justification for violating an author's copyright, none. Doesn't get any simpler than that.
Buying more indie authors is a good thing.

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Did they ever invent a system in which everything works?

I have seen the alternatives to capitalism first hand in Asia, all I can say is "no thank you!". In the end, only capitalism worked to pull the general population out of poverty.

Not what I meant.

I just meant if you are a big money capitalist declaiming its virtues all the time - and the general population acts like you do and you don't like it, don't cry about it like a kindergarten kid who had their teddy bear stolen.

You can't have it both ways, if you want economics and the bottom line thinking to dominate. Compete or piss off.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Blue Tyson

Not what I meant.

I just meant if you are a big money capitalist declaiming its virtues all the time - and the general population acts like you do and you don't like it, don't cry about it like a kindergarten kid who had their teddy bear stolen.

You can't have it both ways, if you want economics and the bottom line thinking to dominate. Compete or piss off.

In that case I agree with you, of course. Though I don't think they are unhappy about me being a paying customer... But in your case the Australian publishers will be. Given the price differences you mentioned I say: who cares about them?

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Note also that Stross doesn't set his prices for his books arny differently than anyone else.

No, but he actually did say that the price hikes were a mammoth ripoff.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by stonetools

The point is that it is rather easy to find all the cheap reads you want these days,without complaining and without breaking the law. If youwant to complain, by all means go ahead. It does get tiresome, though.

Yep. Those cheap reads ARE generally geo restricted.

Move along nothing to see there.

[xg4bx]

not being beholden to any particular author and the fact that my tastes are pretty fluid, these high prices simply aren't affecting me.

my kindle is full to the brim of indie and small press authors, many just as good as those put out by the major pubs and i didn't pay more than $5 for any of them.

my trick is that i killed my "brand" loyalty. i'm not making due with lesser authors, i found alternatives that are just as good if not better. there are scads of awesome authors out there and its pretty easy to separate the wheat from the chaff. 3 of my current favorite authors are indies and they post here on M.R. my #1 favorite is an indie author. i simply don't need whats put out by the majors (other than maybe Baen) because i'm happy as a pig in slop with what i've been reading.

i guess my point is that there are alternatives, nobody is being held hostage to anything.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

That makes no sense, "paying pirates", lol. If you believe this, then you must also speak up against DRM removal, because that is also something you are not "supposed" to do.

Those "geo-restrictions" are so relaxed on purpose because the retailers do want to sell to us, they are just going through the motions to avoid being sued. So the only one that got hurt is the publisher in the country where the buyer is located --- in my case there usually is no publisher for the English version. Geo-restrictions are a contractual matter between the retailer and the author/publisher, they don't concern me. I get the books and pay for them. End of story.

Yes, the retailers want to break the law or the contract. But how does that influence the question?

And yes, from a morally view point, if it is illegal to remove DRM then you can argue that you should not do it. The same kond of argument against copyright infringement (piracying).

So my point was that there is a double standard here. Removing DRM and buying things that you should not be able to buy seems to be OK but piracying seems not to be OK. All actions hurt or has the possibility to hurt somebody. So if you accept one of these actions you should accept all of them.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by tompe

Yes, the retailers want to break the law or the contract. But how does that influence the question?

And yes, from a morally view point, if it is illegal to remove DRM then you can argue that you should not do it. The same kond of argument against copyright infringement (piracying).

So my point was that there is a double standard here. Removing DRM and buying things that you should not be able to buy seems to be OK but piracying seems not to be OK. All actions hurt or has the possibility to hurt somebody. So if you accept one of these actions you should accept all of them.

Let me put it this way. Piracy is 100% wrong, and circumventing geo-restrictions is 1% wrong. They are not in the same league. The first is taking something for free that you have no right to and depriving the author of his income. Like driving 100 when the speed limit is 50. The second is buying something and fully paying for it. Sure, it is a minor bending of somebody's rules (that really only apply to the seller). Call it driving 52 when the speed limit is 50.

But sorry, I don't feel guilty about it.

[hpulley]

To the original point, things are worth what people are willing to pay for them. If most consumers will pay $20 then that is the price whether you are talking about ebooks or a pitcher and pizza deal. This pricing used to be quite regional which is a problem in the global economy. Books in Canada always have a higher price than in the US which makes us angry; it is difficult to explain but most books in stores sell at retail price, strangely the same retailer will offer deep online discounts, I assume to compete with US e-tailers.

I hate, hate, hate geo-restrictions and agree that it invites piracy or in the very least, DRM removal. I hate it when iTunes UK and Japan won't sell me e-things with my Canadian issued credit card when amazon UK or Japan will gladly ship me, for high shipping costs, the same item in physical form. This is infuriating as a customer; I want to buy it but they insist I buy it from my local branch which doesn't carry it.

amazon itself however infuriates Canadians by limiting what we can buy and use compared to those in the US. Due to cloud restrictions they won't sell the Fire outside of the US which boggles the mind.