Which classics fall out of copyright in 2012?

[osnova]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I think we should stop here; else this thread will be moving to the political section.

Just to point out that I don't see it as a political heated debate. At least from my end, I see it as a cool-headed exchange of ideas. Although probably slightly off-topic for this particular thread.

[ATDrake]

Originally Posted by osnova

Oh, and... society did create these works. The society created the individual and let him develop and live in its environment. It educated him in literature and art. It gave him what to work with.

Just like Isaac Newton being able to see farther because of "standing on the shoulders of giants".

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Just like the farmer? the business owner?

Well, persons in either of those professions did similarly receive educations which made use of available public knowledge so that they would know how to farm and run businesses.

And probably made use of equipment and such that itself was created using similar public knowledge of technology and engineering from fields that were able to build based upon publicly shared knowledge, etc.

Regardless of their origins and possible feelings of self-sufficiency, very few people are raised in a cultural vacuum and can discern everything they need to learn about and practice their profession from scratch*.

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I think we should stop here; else this thread will be moving to the political section.

Okay.

* Barring Orson Scott Card tales (Songmaster, I think it was) about musical prodigies being raised totally in isolation from any other created music so that their style would develop "uncontaminated" by the influences of others and be truly original.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by osnova

Just to point out that I don't see it as a political heated debate. At least from my end, I see it as a cool-headed exchange of ideas. Although probably slightly off-topic for this particular thread.

This topic usually heads that way once it gets going. Nothing wrong with a heated debate as long as all parties are amicable.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by ATDrake

Okay.

* Barring Orson Scott Card tales (Songmaster, I think it was) about musical prodigies being raised totally in isolation from any other created music so that their style would develop "uncontaminated" by the influences of others and be truly original.

I'm rather partial to the Infinite Monkey Theorem. I think there's a bit of Shakespeare in all of us.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

It's how I feel. I see no difference in what one chooses to create. These creations should all receive the same protections.

Does a farmer create a farm? No, a farmer makes use of his farm to create products. A farm isn't an object, it's a collection of elements which are required for a farmer to do his work. Like the paper and pen (or printer/type writer/computer/etc) for an author.

So, does a farmer have the same rights on his products, so that even 70 years after his death he can claim money because you ate the flesh of that cow he bread, or drank the milk from that other cow, or even ate grain that came from his land?

[ATDrake]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I'm rather partial to the Infinite Monkey Theorem. I think there's a bit of Shakespeare in all of us.

ObRobert Wilensky:

We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know that is not true.

Or in visual form, the Dilbert version.

* Fun fact: Peter Watts' short story collection† was named Ten Monkeys, Ten Minutes based on the Dilbert cartoon. I own a paper copy.

†All stories now made available for free reading via Creative Commons license on his website, along with his novels. He has a Paypal tipjar, a Hugo Award, and a leg that had to have flesh-eating bacteria‡ cut out of it.

‡And now that I've mentioned the flesh-eating bacteria, I will again mention the tipjar.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by ATDrake

†All stories now made available for free reading via Creative Commons license on his website, along with his novels.

...and 2) please don't edit my actual prose, at least not without asking me first. I put all these words in a specific order for a reason.

...I wonder if that's my problem? I've been banging at a typewriter for years without any success.

[slex]

There is a list here (probably not exhaustive):

http://www.publicdomainday.org/2012/authors

[ssdb]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Just like the farmer? the business owner?

A farm requires constant tending otherwise it becomes grass land or a forest, so there is an argument that a farm today is not the same farm next year.

A novel published today will be the same novel next year.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by ssdb

A farm requires constant tending otherwise it becomes grass land or a forest, so there is an argument that a farm today is not the same farm next year.

And, at least in the UK (probably other countries as well), if a landowner does not actively protect their property rights, they can in fact lose their property.
If you own a field as part of your farm, but do nothing with it, and people from the nearby village use it as they wish continuously for 25 years (without your consent), your field will become public land.
If a single individual uses your land for their own benefit, and takes action to prevent others using it, then in time they can apply to have the land legally transferred to them.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by crich70

There is also the problem that even after a author's works go out of copyright someone has to create the initial files from which an ebook can be made. I imagine it might be a little while before we see Hemmingway and others coming to Gutenberg where many of us who have made ebooks for MR get their raw files. I mean someone has to upload them to that site before they can be made into MR ebooks. I don't know myself how long it takes to get such a file on their system.

Or hopefully an enthusiastic and talented volunteer has created the files already in anticipation of the day when they get the "go" signal and just push the upload button.

Either way, I will be happy whenever they are released.

[Mel]

But aren't we discussing opposite laws when we compare the farm and a copyright. The farmer only profits from the farm if he doesn't allow others use of it. Laws regarding physical property relate to the manner in which we are allowed to deny people use of items. A writer only profits from his book by convincing others to use it. Copyright laws are the manner in which we give people use of items. For myself at least I can't even begin to compare the two because of this very difference.

[Shaggy]

Given the way the laws keep getting rewritten, I suspect the correct answer to "When will <insert author here> enter the public domain" is "Never".

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Given the way the laws keep getting rewritten, I suspect the correct answer to "When will <insert author here> enter the public domain" is "Never".

That's the way it's trending; and that's one way to get there. Rather ugly; but hey, I'll take it.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Mel

But aren't we discussing opposite laws when we compare the farm and a copyright. The farmer only profits from the farm if he doesn't allow others use of it. Laws regarding physical property relate to the manner in which we are allowed to deny people use of items. A writer only profits from his book by convincing others to use it. Copyright laws are the manner in which we give people use of items. For myself at least I can't even begin to compare the two because of this very difference.

So substitute a building that provides rental income for the farm --- then the owner only profits when he allows people to use it.

And you could, of course, rent out the whole farm.