HOW does the library/overdrive/publisher thing work?

gracie · 12-21-2011, 07:27 PM

First - I AM NOT TRYING TO START A URINATION FESTIVAL OR FLAME WAR OR ANYTHING ELSE... I'm trying to understand how decisions get made...

I sent my local library a request for a couple titles. I get a response that there were earlier titles from the author that WERE available from the publisher, but NONE of the "current" titles were available to the library. All the titles are available from Kobo or Amazon or B&N for purchase. AND, all the titles I requested are available in the library on paper and/or audio.

So, WHAT is the reasoning that causes a publisher to decide title A from an author will be available to the library as an ebook, but title B from the same author won't? But at the same time, both A AND B are available to the library on paper and audio book...

I presume there's some algorithm that makes sense, but with the growing popularity of e-readers, why would the publisher turn down sales to the library system?

FizzyWater · 12-21-2011, 09:00 PM

Publishers see ebook libraries as a danger to their business. There's a quote from one of the CEOs here on Mobileread somewhere where the guy basically says it's way too easy to borrow ebooks from the library, which means more people will do it than would if the book was only available in print.

Don't know why book A is and book B isn't although there are possible reasons - they're not both sold by the same publisher (i.e., Janet Evanovich changed publishers last year. Her older publisher doesn't allow ANY of their books to be in ebook libraries, the new publisher does.)

I gotta run, but those are my initial thoughts...

gracie · 12-21-2011, 09:41 PM

So, do the publishers figure if they make it harder for libraries to get ebooks, and patrons to borrow those books, that the e-readers will go away and we'll all go back to paper?

Seems a little like having the USPS figure if they ignore email we'll all go back to writing letters with a quill on paper...

Blue Tyson · 12-21-2011, 09:48 PM

No, for some reason they hope that people that don't buy books and use libraries will then buy their higher priced books instead.

They also hope that if there is no library lending that their customer base will not shrink.

SeaBookGuy · 12-21-2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gracie

So, do the publishers figure if they make it harder for libraries to get ebooks, and patrons to borrow those books, that the e-readers will go away and we'll all go back to paper?

Seems a little like having the USPS figure if they ignore email we'll all go back to writing letters with a quill on paper...

They feel patrons will cave and shell out for the e-copy if it's not available as a library download.

robko · 12-21-2011, 09:59 PM

Check out this thread too. It may also shed some light on it.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...hlight=library

rogue_librarian · 12-22-2011, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gracie

So, do the publishers figure if they make it harder for libraries to get ebooks, and patrons to borrow those books, that the e-readers will go away and we'll all go back to paper?

They'd like that, of course, but I think even the publishing industry execs know that that's not going to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Tyson

No, for some reason they hope that people that don't buy books and use libraries will then buy their higher priced books instead.

Yeah, good luck with that. People who do frequent libraries seem more likely to take the moral high road instead of resorting to the darknet, but don't push your luck.

gracie · 12-22-2011, 08:42 AM

It's early, so maybe I'm still fuzzy, but this whole discussion seems bizarre to me. I went to the link and read about the library issue, and that's not making a lot of sense either......

I don't claim to understand publishing, or reading demographics, but... It seems to me most reading is done by "older" people. They're already buying paper books or going to libraries and reading paper books. They may or may not get an e-reader, but I suspect the percentage will be pretty small. Then you have a whole set of generations that appears to read less and less as they get younger. From anecdotal evidence of my own family, the 35-45-year-olds read some, the 20-35 year olds read far fewer books, and the 10-20-year-olds read virtually nothing they don't have to... It SEEMS to me that ebooks could be a way for a publisher to tap that whole demographic by making books available on cell phones, e-readers, computers, whatever...

Unless there's some huge hidden cost, it SEEMS like the incremental cost of producing an e-book is so negligible that a publisher would WANT to push as many titles as possible out to the libraries to tap the bunch that don't read traditional books and wouldn't buy a book on paper or electronically. It seems like it'd be better to get some dollars by selling a title to a library than to get none from this group that won't buy. And since publishers aren't stupid (I'm presuming they aren't), I've got to be missing something... What am I missing?

emellaich · 12-22-2011, 11:57 AM

My guess looking at my local library is that publishers are using it as a promotion similar to offering free ebooks for an author.

I see a lot of series that are only partially available. After I check out a book and go to Amazon, it asks me if I want to buy other books from the series.

gracie · 12-22-2011, 12:24 PM

I just read an editorial or opinion piece in American Libraries Magazine that explained that the fault with pricing and access is actually Steve Jobs and Apple's fault...........

I get it now, and very much hope the investigations into price fixing among the publishers gets somebody a major spanking.

elemenoP · 12-22-2011, 12:28 PM

I don't think ebook pricing/price fixing and ebook library access are related to each other.

If you want to be certain whether the book is *available* in Overdrive (ie, your library just didn't buy it), you can do a search here:

http://search.overdrive.com/classic/

eP

nogle · 12-22-2011, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elemenoP

I don't think ebook pricing/price fixing and ebook library access are related to each other.

If you want to be certain whether the book is *available* in Overdrive (ie, your library just didn't buy it), you can do a search here:

http://search.overdrive.com/classic/

eP

that is a very useful llink. Thank you.

rdfry · 12-22-2011, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gracie

First - I AM NOT TRYING TO START A URINATION FESTIVAL OR FLAME WAR OR ANYTHING ELSE... I'm trying to understand how decisions get made...

I sent my local library a request for a couple titles. I get a response that there were earlier titles from the author that WERE available from the publisher, but NONE of the "current" titles were available to the library. All the titles are available from Kobo or Amazon or B&N for purchase. AND, all the titles I requested are available in the library on paper and/or audio.

So, WHAT is the reasoning that causes a publisher to decide title A from an author will be available to the library as an ebook, but title B from the same author won't? But at the same time, both A AND B are available to the library on paper and audio book...

I presume there's some algorithm that makes sense, but with the growing popularity of e-readers, why would the publisher turn down sales to the library system?

Macmillan, Simon and Shuster never allowed their ebooks to be purchased by Overdrive for sale to libraries. Harper Collins sold their ebooks to Overdrive but then decided that their new ebooks would have to be repurchased after being lent out after 26 loans. Overdrive is no longer purchasing their new titles. Penguin Books decided shortly after Kindle library lending became available that their new titles would no longer be available for sale to Overdrive. Older titles from these publishers are available and will probably still remain available at least in epub format. So it appears that new books from the big 4 publishers will no longer be available as ebooks in libraries worldwide.

gracie · 12-22-2011, 10:36 PM

I used the link to check the last 4 I requested from the library. None are in Overdrive...... All are at Amazon and B&N...

It's unfortunate, but it's sounding more and more like I'm going to be splitting my reading between paper books and Nook for the foreseeable future. And from the 4 of 6 major publisher's stance, it sounds like it's getting worse instead of better.

So, just out of curiosity, what's likely to drag these <series of expletives deleted> publishers into the 21st century?

rogue_librarian · 12-23-2011, 12:42 AM

Plummeting sales? But that'll take time. In the meantime, expect another few rounds of "let's blame the pirates".

12-21-2011, 07:27 PM	#1
gracie Enthusiast Posts: 39 Karma: 290320 Join Date: Dec 2011 Device: Nook Color	HOW does the library/overdrive/publisher thing work? First - I AM NOT TRYING TO START A URINATION FESTIVAL OR FLAME WAR OR ANYTHING ELSE... I'm trying to understand how decisions get made... I sent my local library a request for a couple titles. I get a response that there were earlier titles from the author that WERE available from the publisher, but NONE of the "current" titles were available to the library. All the titles are available from Kobo or Amazon or B&N for purchase. AND, all the titles I requested are available in the library on paper and/or audio. So, WHAT is the reasoning that causes a publisher to decide title A from an author will be available to the library as an ebook, but title B from the same author won't? But at the same time, both A AND B are available to the library on paper and audio book... I presume there's some algorithm that makes sense, but with the growing popularity of e-readers, why would the publisher turn down sales to the library system?

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12-21-2011, 09:00 PM	#2
FizzyWater You kids get off my lawn! Posts: 4,220 Karma: 73492664 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Columbus, Ohio Device: Oasis 2 and Libra H2O and half a dozen older models I can't let go of	Publishers see ebook libraries as a danger to their business. There's a quote from one of the CEOs here on Mobileread somewhere where the guy basically says it's way too easy to borrow ebooks from the library, which means more people will do it than would if the book was only available in print. Don't know why book A is and book B isn't although there are possible reasons - they're not both sold by the same publisher (i.e., Janet Evanovich changed publishers last year. Her older publisher doesn't allow ANY of their books to be in ebook libraries, the new publisher does.) I gotta run, but those are my initial thoughts...

12-21-2011, 09:41 PM	#3
gracie Enthusiast Posts: 39 Karma: 290320 Join Date: Dec 2011 Device: Nook Color	So, do the publishers figure if they make it harder for libraries to get ebooks, and patrons to borrow those books, that the e-readers will go away and we'll all go back to paper? Seems a little like having the USPS figure if they ignore email we'll all go back to writing letters with a quill on paper...

12-21-2011, 09:48 PM	#4
Blue Tyson Blue Captain Posts: 1,595 Karma: 5000236 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Australia Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G,Huawei Ideos X3,Kobo Mini	No, for some reason they hope that people that don't buy books and use libraries will then buy their higher priced books instead. They also hope that if there is no library lending that their customer base will not shrink.

12-21-2011, 09:59 PM	#6
robko Wizard Posts: 2,454 Karma: 5469320 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Kobo	Check out this thread too. It may also shed some light on it. https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...hlight=library

12-22-2011, 08:42 AM	#8
gracie Enthusiast Posts: 39 Karma: 290320 Join Date: Dec 2011 Device: Nook Color	It's early, so maybe I'm still fuzzy, but this whole discussion seems bizarre to me. I went to the link and read about the library issue, and that's not making a lot of sense either...... I don't claim to understand publishing, or reading demographics, but... It seems to me most reading is done by "older" people. They're already buying paper books or going to libraries and reading paper books. They may or may not get an e-reader, but I suspect the percentage will be pretty small. Then you have a whole set of generations that appears to read less and less as they get younger. From anecdotal evidence of my own family, the 35-45-year-olds read some, the 20-35 year olds read far fewer books, and the 10-20-year-olds read virtually nothing they don't have to... It SEEMS to me that ebooks could be a way for a publisher to tap that whole demographic by making books available on cell phones, e-readers, computers, whatever... Unless there's some huge hidden cost, it SEEMS like the incremental cost of producing an e-book is so negligible that a publisher would WANT to push as many titles as possible out to the libraries to tap the bunch that don't read traditional books and wouldn't buy a book on paper or electronically. It seems like it'd be better to get some dollars by selling a title to a library than to get none from this group that won't buy. And since publishers aren't stupid (I'm presuming they aren't), I've got to be missing something... What am I missing?

12-22-2011, 11:57 AM	#9
emellaich Wizard Posts: 1,101 Karma: 4388403 Join Date: Oct 2007 Device: Palm>Ebookman>IPaq>Axim>Cybook>Kndl2>IPAD>Kndl3SO>Voyager>Oasis	My guess looking at my local library is that publishers are using it as a promotion similar to offering free ebooks for an author. I see a lot of series that are only partially available. After I check out a book and go to Amazon, it asks me if I want to buy other books from the series.

12-22-2011, 12:24 PM	#10
gracie Enthusiast Posts: 39 Karma: 290320 Join Date: Dec 2011 Device: Nook Color	I just read an editorial or opinion piece in American Libraries Magazine that explained that the fault with pricing and access is actually Steve Jobs and Apple's fault........... I get it now, and very much hope the investigations into price fixing among the publishers gets somebody a major spanking.

12-22-2011, 12:28 PM	#11
elemenoP Wizard Posts: 1,717 Karma: 3790058 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: NYC Device: Kindle Paperwhite, Sony 650	I don't think ebook pricing/price fixing and ebook library access are related to each other. If you want to be certain whether the book is available in Overdrive (ie, your library just didn't buy it), you can do a search here: http://search.overdrive.com/classic/ eP

12-22-2011, 10:36 PM	#14
gracie Enthusiast Posts: 39 Karma: 290320 Join Date: Dec 2011 Device: Nook Color	I used the link to check the last 4 I requested from the library. None are in Overdrive...... All are at Amazon and B&N... It's unfortunate, but it's sounding more and more like I'm going to be splitting my reading between paper books and Nook for the foreseeable future. And from the 4 of 6 major publisher's stance, it sounds like it's getting worse instead of better. So, just out of curiosity, what's likely to drag these <series of expletives deleted> publishers into the 21st century?

12-23-2011, 12:42 AM	#15
rogue_librarian Guru Posts: 973 Karma: 4269175 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Europe Device: Pocketbook Basic 613	Plummeting sales? But that'll take time. In the meantime, expect another few rounds of "let's blame the pirates".