Publishers still missing the point on e-book prices

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by stonetools

You need to read the entire quote (and indeed the linked article). Publishers are indeed adjusting to the realities of a shift to digital, but that takes time and money.

Perhaps they would have more money if they spent less on copyright trolls and slush funds for canvasing (buying off) US senators.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

But we're the one buying the indies...They care.

Of equal importance, there will be continual leakage from high cost markets to low cost markets. It happens to every other market in existance, why are e-books suddenly immune?

If you are going to buy indie, well, that's great-keeps the major publishers on their toes. Most buyers are going to buy established authors, because they know that Steven King or James Patterson will deliver, whereas they have never heard of aspiring author Stephanie King , who can only compete by doing everything herself and pricing her book at used book prices.

There is a place for everyone in the ebook market, just as there are places in the car market for the BMWs and the Infinitis,(to say nothing of the Ferraris and the Bentleys) as well as for the Sentras and the Chevies. you don't have to sell BMWS at Sentra prices.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Perhaps they would have more money if they spent less on copyright trolls and slush funds for canvasing (buying off) US senators.

Defending copyright is a great thing , according to Ms. Ursula K. Leguin.

2. Unfact: Copyright is a selfish grab by rich, famous authors so they get to make all the profit out of their books.

Fact: Copyright is a limited and carefully designed law to protect authors from poverty. It allows authors control over the rights in their books, so that they, like any worker, can make what profit they can from their work.

It’s called “copy” right because it involves, literally, the right to make copies of the work.

An author contracting with a publisher sells the publisher a limited piece of her copyright: that is, the right to make copies (i.e., publish the work in a certain form for a certain period of time) in exchange for a share (usually 15% or less) of the publisher’s profits.

Discussion: Copyright has existed only since the 18th century. Till then, writers mostly lived by finding and sucking up to a rich patron. Since then, writers have been able to make an independent living… well, dependent on the whims of publishers — but after all, publishers and writers have pretty much the same stakes in the very chancy game of making books.

Only ignorance or irresponsibility dismiss copyright as “irrelevant to the Digital Age.” It’s needed more than ever, to protect authors from trying to live by selling themselves to corporations or selling their text space to advertisers. Copyright law has to be extended and rewritten to work with the new technologies of publishing. The notion that it’s unnecessary makes it all the harder to get that necessary work done.A lot of people quote Stu Brand: “Information wants to be free.” I wonder why they hardly ever quote the other half of Stu’s sentence: “It also wants to be paid for.”

Information can be free to the user, the reader, and pay a living wage to the originator, the author: Think of the free Public Library.

This balance can extend to the Internet, if we can rewrite copyright law to cover the new technologies.

Sneers and sloganeering ain’t going to butter the beans. It will take hard and careful work. Can you imagine trying to explain to the current Speaker of the House how it might be done and why it’s important to do it?

LINK

Now of course, she is one of the greatest SF authors of all time and quite au courant with all things Internet, but what does she know?

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by tompe

Book that have gotten very good reviews and have been recommended by friends or that are published by a well respected publishser. I will prefer a more expensive book since if it is cheap you can suspect that the book is not so good since they have to compete using price.

I also read price award nominated books.

And this is just stupid.

Because Joe Haldeman's Forever War is 4.95 in ebook.

And no-name mediocre fantasy author is 33.54. And the latter is better because it is more expensive?

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Defending copyright is a great thing , according to Ms. Ursula K. Leguin.



LINK

Now of course, she is one of the greatest SF authors of all time and quite au courant with all things Internet, but what does she know?

Le Guin is an octagenarian with an arts degree - the sort of person that is most likely to not be an Internet expert, actually.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Defending copyright is a great thing , according to Ms. Ursula K. Leguin.

Now of course, she is one of the greatest SF authors of all time and quite au courant with all things Internet, but what does she know?

If they bought their businesses into the modern digital era instead of using a pre turn of the century business model they would spend less time and money on pursuing copyright. Perhaps your masters in the publishing industry might need to understand that?

The successful Baen model of digital distribution is not new and it works. A great pity the faceless old men running the big publishing corporations are so terrified of change they are simply frozen in fear. Evolution is critical to stay viable and they are NOT evolving to the changes around them.

No amount of personal comments or opinion from authors who made money and their respected name within the old system will change that.

[FizzyWater]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Well, I think the point may be that $5-6 for an immersive reading experience of 8-10 hours may be too low to to sustain a corps of professional writers. How much would you be willing to pay for a movie, an album, a concert, a play, a sporting event? Seems to me if you are willing a kick out $10 or more for a movie or album and maybe $50 or more for a play, then $10-15 for a well written fiction book isn't really out of the ballpark.

1. When I bought paperbacks (MMPB) I seldom paid more the $6.00, so I'm not asking for the eBooks to be the same as used, just the same as print
2. If I decided to shell out $50 or more for theatre or Cirque du Soliel or a concert, I MIGHT do that once or twice a year - it's a treat. When I'm not immersed in a huge project, I can read 3-4 books a week (and it doesn't take me 8-10 hours to read a fiction novel!) It's just not the same thing.
3. And although I didn't really look deeply into your example, I'd say there is extra production costs that are obvious in audiobooks (gotta pay someone to read it, to direct it, etc.) that make the increased price worth it.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Blue Tyson

Le Guin is an octogenarian with an arts degree - the sort of person that is most likely to not be an Internet expert, actually.

Age discrimination is small minded, and just wrong.

If you bothered to click on the link, you would realize that she has a blog, a website, and led the fight against the Google Book settlement. I'd value her opinion over that of some anonymous poster on an Internet forum.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by Blue Tyson

Le Guin is an octagenarian with an arts degree - the sort of person that is most likely to not be an Internet expert, actually.

Simply because someone may be in their eighties doesn't mean that they have to be internet ignoramuses... being younger doesn't give you a monopoly on internet knowledge... quite a few of us who are older than 5 have been with the internet since before there was an internet... and get sick of being patronised and condescended to by people who think that the internet = the web because it always has for them...

[tompe]

Originally Posted by sabredog

You did say that. Your assertion in this thread and the Hatchette Australian pricing thread that higher prices mean better books and ripping off customers is acceptable business practice is quite plain

Read more carefully. I said that I personally prefer to minimize the risk of spending time reading just an OK book. And that risk I think is less if you stay with established publishers if you do not have any other criteria. That was what I wrote.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by sabredog

If they bought their businesses into the modern digital era instead of using a pre turn of the century business model they would spend less time and money on pursuing copyright. Perhaps your masters in the publishing industry might need to understand that?

The successful Baen model of digital distribution is not new and it works. A great pity the faceless old men running the big publishing corporations are so terrified of change they are simply frozen in fear. Evolution is critical to stay viable and they are NOT evolving to the changes around them.

No amount of personal comments or opinion from authors who made money and their respected name within the old system will change that.

I'm going to ignore the ad hominem, because I'm bigger than that.
Baen is a nice example of a minor publisher catering to a particular niche. Even they do not claim that their model can scale to a major publisher selling to a wide variety of genres.
And since we don't have access to financials, we don't really know how well it works. Are they as financially sound as the majors? Are they on the verge of bankruptcy? We don't know.
In any case, they defend copyright as much as anyone else in the book industry.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by FizzyWater

1. When I bought paperbacks (MMPB) I seldom paid more the $6.00, so I'm not asking for the eBooks to be the same as used, just the same as print
2. If I decided to shell out $50 or more for theatre or Cirque du Soliel or a concert, I MIGHT do that once or twice a year - it's a treat. When I'm not immersed in a huge project, I can read 3-4 books a week (and it doesn't take me 8-10 hours to read a fiction novel!) It's just not the same thing.
3. And although I didn't really look deeply into your example, I'd say there is extra production costs that are obvious in audiobooks (gotta pay someone to read it, to direct it, etc.) that make the increased price worth it.

Most MMPBs now sell for 7.99-9.99. Blame inflation.

You can get lots of ebooks for less than $6. Unfortunately, the quality is hit or miss at best. What I do is load up on sales from the majors, freebies, and indies, and buy at full price only for my favorites. I don't get EVERY ebook for less than $6. I'm satisfied with spending less than $6 per ebook on average. Indeed, my average is probably nearer $3 per book- and I've bought a couple of 14.99s.

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Age discrimination is small minded, and just wrong.

If you bothered to click on the link, you would realize that she has a blog, a website, and led the fight against the Google Book settlement. I'd value her opinion over that of some anonymous poster on an Internet forum.

Well, you are pretty slow if you don't realise that people that age on probability are far less likely to be internet experts. That's not age discrimination, it is a fact.

Fred Pohl has a blog, too. Not an internet expert. And the Google Book settlement has nothing to do with whether you know anything about the internet or not.

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by elcreative

Simply because someone may be in their eighties doesn't mean that they have to be internet ignoramuses... being younger doesn't give you a monopoly on internet knowledge... quite a few of us who are older than 5 have been with the internet since before there was an internet... and get sick of being patronised and condescended to by people who think that the internet = the web because it always has for them...

No, but it does mean they are much more likely to be.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I'm going to ignore the ad hominem, because I'm bigger than that.

Yet, you resort to sarcasm which certainly makes your assertion worthless.