Has Amazon cracked the subscription puzzle?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rcuadro

on a side note Nan... I just bought Risen... looks like a book that is right up my alley

I can't buy Risen. J. Strnad doesn't want my business. What I was thinking of doing was buying some eBooks (that interested me) from authors on MR once I finsihed my holiday shopping and depending on how much I had left over. Now I can't buy this one. I can never buy this one. He's gone exclusive with Amazon. That means it's not available in the format I want. I'm not buying from Amazon. If I cannot buy in ePub, too bad. That's another sale lost.

Plus, it means he doesn't care about me, so I don't care if he tanks.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

I'm not sure any of the Big Six have!

Amazon did an end run around them by treating each "borrow" as a sale, paying them for it as if Amazon had purchased the book and gifted it to a Prime member. The publishers didn't agree that this was legal and protested.

It might not be legal. Does Amazon have the right to gift eBooks that the right holders says no? I think Amazon is looking to be part a law suit.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

If that's the way it's done, why would they care? They got their money.

They would care because it devalues the books.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I can't buy Risen. J. Strnad doesn't want my business. What I was thinking of doing was buying some eBooks (that interested me) from authors on MR once I finsihed my holiday shopping and depending on how much I had left over. Now I can't buy this one. I can never buy this one. He's gone exclusive with Amazon. That means it's not available in the format I want. I'm not buying from Amazon. If I cannot buy in ePub, too bad. That's another sale lost.

Plus, it means he doesn't care about me, so I don't care if he tanks.

You do know it's fairly easy to format shift from azw to epub? I do understand in a perfect word you just get everything in exactly the format you want without DRM, but we don't live in a perfect world. So I think the word you are looking for is not "can't buy" but rather "refuse to buy". It's your choice, of course, if you don't wish to make the effort and I'm not saying you should, but it is a choice.

[elemenoP]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

I'm not sure any of the Big Six have!

Amazon did an end run around them by treating each "borrow" as a sale, paying them for it as if Amazon had purchased the book and gifted it to a Prime member. The publishers didn't agree that this was legal and protested.

That does sound directly against the Agency model, which says no discounting of books. Amazon is setting a different price on the books (free) and paying the wholesale rate, which the publishers have successfully prevented in many other instances. If there are any Big Six books on the list, I predict they won't be there for long.

So the question is: Can a subscription model work and have value to consumers, with none of the major publishers involved?

eP

[pwalker8]

Getting back to the original point of the thread, I don't really think that Amazon has cracked the subscription model. In a broad sense, I would break people who read books into two camps, one camp buys and keeps books, the other camp reads a book and then discards it (return it to the library or sale at a used book store) and moves on to the next book. I don't see where this model suits either camp. A subscription model where you read one book at a time and then return it and pick another one would be more suitable for many people. On the other hand, I don't know how many best sellers would be willing to go that route.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by elemenoP

That does sound directly against the Agency model, which says no discounting of books. Amazon is setting a different price on the books (free) and paying the wholesale rate, which the publishers have successfully prevented in many other instances. If there are any Big Six books on the list, I predict they won't be there for long.

So the question is: Can a subscription model work and have value to consumers, with none of the major publishers involved?

eP

Right now, I would have to say no.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by elemenoP

That does sound directly against the Agency model, which says no discounting of books. Amazon is setting a different price on the books (free) and paying the wholesale rate, which the publishers have successfully prevented in many other instances. If there are any Big Six books on the list, I predict they won't be there for long.

Yup, it is quite a clever attempt, but it is just working around Agency pricing by another means, and I can't see them being allowed to continue it.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by elemenoP

That does sound directly against the Agency model, which says no discounting of books. Amazon is setting a different price on the books (free) and paying the wholesale rate, which the publishers have successfully prevented in many other instances. If there are any Big Six books on the list, I predict they won't be there for long.

So the question is: Can a subscription model work and have value to consumers, with none of the major publishers involved?

eP

Its interesting that you are skeptical that a mostly indie subscription model would not have value to consumers. Here on these forums, indie writers are often praised for their courage, low prices, and above all for their willingness to publish DRM free. OTOH, major publishers are often excoriated for their backwardness, high prices, and for their insistence on DRM "handcuffs". You would think that MRers would be open to a mostly indie subscription model. Is MR support for indies just all talk?

[DiapDealer]

You think that MRers would be open to a mostly indie subscription model. Is MR support for indies just all talk?

Huge non sequitur.

I don't want/support ANY subscription model. How does that say anything about my support for indies?

[tubemonkey]

I like the idea of subscription models for media - newspapers, magazines, videos, music, cable TV, library books, ebooks, etc.

[Ntsimp]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It might not be legal. Does Amazon have the right to gift eBooks that the right holders says no? I think Amazon is looking to be part a law suit.

Yes, you have the right to give away things you own.

[carpetmojo]

If Amazon are doing anything , it means they see more £/$'s in it somewhere.
They ain't really philanthropic......

[J. Strnad]

With movies, we have a number of ways to see the movie we want. Go to the theater, buy a DVD or Blu-Ray, pay-per-view, through a subscription to HBO or NetFlix, wait for a free viewing (with commercials), even buy a used DVD at a yard sale.

I think that'll happen with ebooks, where you'll be able to buy it, or borrow it through a subscription plan with subscription plans competing for exclusive content the way HBO and Cinemax compete (or used to...I don't have either anymore so I don't really know).

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Getting back to the original point of the thread, I don't really think that Amazon has cracked the subscription model. In a broad sense, I would break people who read books into two camps, one camp buys and keeps books, the other camp reads a book and then discards it (return it to the library or sale at a used book store) and moves on to the next book. I don't see where this model suits either camp. A subscription model where you read one book at a time and then return it and pick another one would be more suitable for many people. On the other hand, I don't know how many best sellers would be willing to go that route.

As I said above, I think the majors' participation in a subscription plan would be limited at best , at least at the beginning. I can see a business case for them offering only shorter work ( Kindle Singles) , which are usually priced at 2.99 or less.
I think you are wrong in suggesting that subscription models will only succeed if premium content (bestsellers) are offered. There are subscription models that work without offering the latest and the greatest (see Netflix streaming or Amazon Video). For example , I have Netflix Streaming but also rent from iTunes and go to first run movies to see the premium, first run stuff.
I can see someone subscribing to Amazon but also buying bestsellers separately.
I can also see Amazon offering a mostly indie Standard plan and a Premium plan that might include bestsellers. That would involve negotiations with the majors and lots of lawyers but the majors aren't rigidly opposed to a subscription plan, if there is something in it for them