Ebook readers need to get cheaper

[Dylrob]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Doesn't matter... e-ink isn't the only thing people can read on. And if you get kids used to something early, including color LCDs, they won't give a hoot about e-ink when they grow up.

From my own personal experience, I have to disagree. I've been around computers since before I was even born... my mother bought a Mac when she was six months pregnant. When most kids were drawing with crayons on paper, I was using clarisworks. And yet, now that I'm 22, I definitely find reading off of eInk to be a more "pleasant" experience than reading off of an LCD or any other self-lit display.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Dylrob

From my own personal experience, I have to disagree. I've been around computers since before I was even born... my mother bought a Mac when she was six months pregnant. When most kids were drawing with crayons on paper, I was using clarisworks. And yet, now that I'm 22, I definitely find reading off of eInk to be a more "pleasant" experience than reading off of an LCD or any other self-lit display.

Guess you just never "got used to it"!

...okay, you're right, preference is up to the user. But my point is, if you are exposed to something at an early age, you will be more inclined to be comfortable with it as you get older.

The other point I should have made is, if you want something bad enough... like being able to read and learn... you'll get used to the available tools and make do. When I was young (never mind how long ago!), I wanted to be able to edit documents on portable computers, so I, who grew up using Royal manual typewriters (and now you know how long ago!) got used to on-screen PDA keyboards, and for awhile, could stylus-type as fast as I could hunt-and-peck type.

Never underestimate the power of desire. Lack of e-ink won't hold those kids back.

[MaggieScratch]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Doesn't matter... e-ink isn't the only thing people can read on. And if you get kids used to something early, including color LCDs, they won't give a hoot about e-ink when they grow up.

...until they turn 40 and their eyes go bad. I speak from experience, as you may have guessed. It's not just that eInk is shiny tech, it's that it is easier on the eyes to read for long periods.

[nekokami]

E Ink is nice, and maybe by the time they're really in design mode, the price will have fallen enough to be practical in a device like this. Or maybe E ink will have been replaced by something else by then, offering the same benefits of low power and a reflective, sunlight-readable screen, but with a faster refresh rate. In either case, I think the design looks good. I have family in the Peace Corps and it costs an incredible amount of money to ship books and paper to the places these devices would be needed most. I'm not saying this kind of project should take precedence over food and clean drinking water, but I think it could really help. Reading isn't just for pleasure, remember (though I think the importance of being able to read for pleasure is often under-rated).

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by MaggieScratch

...until they turn 40 and their eyes go bad. I speak from experience, as you may have guessed. It's not just that eInk is shiny tech, it's that it is easier on the eyes to read for long periods.

I guess I should just steer clear of all you LCD-haters! I'll just add that you can get eyestrain reading anything (check out my photos sometime), and drop it (like a hot potato!).

So, back to topic: Personally, the "fold-up" part of the concept doesn't do anything for me... it's an extravagance, really, that just adds extra cost due to extra technological complication. If the idea is to make this device as cheaply as possible, it's better off having only 1 screen, and a simple interface surface... like a laptop, or even a tablet. I have to wonder what research, exactly, leads Negroponte to say that "the book experience is key." It would be nice if we at MR could be privy to this data...

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I guess I should just steer clear of all you LCD-haters! I'll just add that you can get eyestrain reading anything (check out my photos sometime), and drop it (like a hot potato!).

So, back to topic: Personally, the "fold-up" part of the concept doesn't do anything for me... it's an extravagance, really, that just adds extra cost due to extra technological complication. If the idea is to make this device as cheaply as possible, it's better off having only 1 screen, and a simple interface surface... like a laptop, or even a tablet. I have to wonder what research, exactly, leads Negroponte to say that "the book experience is key." It would be nice if we at MR could be privy to this data...

This, as are all olpc devices, is expected to be somewhat rugged. the fold up design protects the screen while transporting the unit, the same as a laptop by the way which is also foldup. The screen doesn't fold, there are two screens.

Dale

[Lemurion]

eInk would be nice-- but I had insomnia last night and was able to read on my Palm TX which I couldn't have done with eInk.

We need more readers in the $100 price range, as for many people $300+ is just too much money.

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I guess I should just steer clear of all you LCD-haters! I'll just add that you can get eyestrain reading anything (check out my photos sometime), and drop it (like a hot potato!).

So, back to topic: Personally, the "fold-up" part of the concept doesn't do anything for me... it's an extravagance, really, that just adds extra cost due to extra technological complication. If the idea is to make this device as cheaply as possible, it's better off having only 1 screen, and a simple interface surface... like a laptop, or even a tablet. I have to wonder what research, exactly, leads Negroponte to say that "the book experience is key." It would be nice if we at MR could be privy to this data...

Steve,

One LCD user here...and I have been well on the side of eink is not a panacea just yet. Of course I love the low energy aspect of eink as well as the wonderful ability to ready easily outside. I can read on my nx73v but it's not perfect still, I can do it for a while as though it's an antique it does have a transreflective display.

Personally I think that prototype concept image of the OLPC with dual display's is the ideal device...seriously. And fold-up is not any sort of tech overhead that does not already exist in Windows aas well as other OS's. All major commercial OS's support both extended and multiple display's. There might be some development overhead on the driver and software side, but really that is trivial and could be done in weeks if not days.

Notice on the OLPC dual display prototype images there is almost no gap between the display's when fully open so one could do things such as display diagrams/schematics or even larger aspects of software development. If you add something like bluetooth for an external and very portable folding keyboard one could do some amazing work on the road. Maybe we have become too married to the integrated keyboard in laptops and portable devices. I know if I had a device with wacom or simply touch screen with stylus input I would do a majority of my work w/o even touching a keyboard.

And the obvious benefit is also a dual display fits for technical and art books. Many books literially depend on being able to view two pages at the same time to convey the information it contains.

So, I am all for the idea of even just eink systems in their current state. Or even using the new displays with LED backlighting vs. the current florescent backlights which draw so very much power. LED backlighting might be the way to bridge the gap to low light reading on eink. Eventually tech will come along to make something like eink the standard and able to be read in the dark.

Anyway, I think we could easily have low energy, well made dual foldup display devices tomorrow if any company really put some effort into it...and all using existing tech. Heck, I even see a variation of a built-in keyboard that actually can stay in place for use when opened and operating in single display mode or removed for use as a BT keyboard in dual display mode.

As you might note, I have two LCD devices. I have them because I love to read in bed at night, I can read w/o bothering the better half even though she snores like a lumberjack loud enough to put a chain saw to shame so I can't sleep some nights. Not to worry she never reads this place, she will never know...hehehehe...and it is exactly that issue which keeps me from buying an eink reader. Well that and the whole contrast aspect. Just know you are not alone in prefering LCD over eink...

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by MaggieScratch

...until they turn 40 and their eyes go bad. I speak from experience, as you may have guessed. It's not just that eInk is shiny tech, it's that it is easier on the eyes to read for long periods.

Well past 40 here and eink is harder on my eyes then LCD by a long margin. 30-mins reading on eink and my eyes are done...hours and hours everyday on LCD and I am fine. Ya have to remember everyone is different and be open to the aspect that every one is very different and there is no one size fits all.

[Jadon]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

Personally I think that prototype concept image of the OLPC with dual displays is the ideal device...seriously.

For extensive typing, a touch screen is going to be worse than keys, but for something primarily used for reading, browsing, and others uses where occasionally hitting a button suffices, it will do.

Originally Posted by brecklundin

Notice on the OLPC dual display prototype images there is almost no gap between the display's when fully open

There's some desktop multi-monitor setup where they manage no separation, by making the bezel transparent and maybe having it skew the lines underneath to fill the gap. I'd worry about the edge of the screens on the fold, however. I'd think there'd have to be some protective backing that covered the raw edge when folded.

[Greg Anos]

Any idea I come up with is a waste of time, I know....but,

Both!

Make one screen eink and one screen lcd. The waste light from the LCD acts as a light on the e-ink for lighting in the dark (if you must use it in the dark.) Either one can be the screen and the other the touch keyboard, and you use the LCD for video and other color (and or high-speed) applications, while you use the e-ink side for reading (or the LCD side instead, if you prefer).