Project Gutenberg...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by gweeks

No. Read it carefully. Inside the EU all terms are the same length for material originating in the EU. Germany has a older treaty with the US that says it does not go by the Berne rule of the shorter term, but all other EU nations are supposed to support it for material not origination from an EU country.

Greg Weeks

That's definitely not the case in the UK, Greg. Here, copyright is a blanket life+70, regardless of what the copyright status of the work may be elsewhere.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's definitely not the case in the UK, Greg. Here, copyright is a blanket life+70, regardless of what the copyright status of the work may be elsewhere.

Not sure about that, Harry.

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy/c-duration/c-types.htm

You should also note that. for copyright works originating outside the UK or another country of the European Economic Area (EEA), the term of protection may be shorter if it is shorter in the country of origin. There may also be variations in the term where a work was created before 1 January 1996.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Not sure about that, Harry.

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy/c-duration/c-types.htm

News to me. Very happy to be proved wrong about it, though!

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by HarryT

News to me. Very happy to be proved wrong about it, though!

I suspect it doesn't apply to US works because we have some sort of bilateral agreement in place, as Germany did in the example given.

Edit: From Wikipedia:

Bilateral treaties
Following the Chace International Copyright Act, which was signed into law on March 3, 1891 and which became effective on July 1 of the same year, the United States concluded a number of bilateral copyright treaties with foreign countries. In 1891, treaties with Belgium, France, Spain, and the United Kingdom became effective; 1892 followed treaties with Germany and Italy; in 1893, with Denmark and Portugal; in 1896 with Chile and Mexico, and in 1899 with Costa Rica and the Netherlands. These treaties remained effective even after the 1976 Copyright Act unless "terminated, suspended, or revised by the President".[15] The treaty from 1892 with Germany was applied in a court case in Germany in 2003.[16]

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

I suspect it doesn't apply to US works because we have some sort of bilateral agreement in place, as Germany did in the example given.

Edit: From Wikipedia:

That makes sense. I was pretty certain that it didn't apply to the US, so I was right in saying that it's not legal for people in the UK to download Ms. Norton's works from PG.

[gweeks]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

I suspect it doesn't apply to US works because we have some sort of bilateral agreement in place, as Germany did in the example given.

It might or might not. You have to know the specific agreements. The only one I've looked at is Canada. In Canada the NAFTA agreements with the US remove the rule of the shorter term from the general Berne implementation. Before NAFTA there was another treaty that did the same. The US is a rather late comer to Berne anyway. Prior to Berne the US was very stingy about copyright for non-US authors.

Greg weeks

[murraypaul]

From what I can see from the UK legislation:

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/cdpact1988.pdf

12
11
Duration of copyright in literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works
(1) The following provisions have effect with respect to the duration of copyright in a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work.
(2) Copyright expires at the end of the period of 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the author dies, subject as follows.
[(3) and (4) relate to works of unknown authorship, (5) defines making available to the public)
(6) Where the country of origin of the work is not an EEA state and the author of the work is not a national of an EEA state, the duration of copyright is that to which the work is entitled in the country of origin, provided that does not exceed the period which would apply under subsections (2) to (5).

15A
15
Meaning of country of origin
(1) For the purposes of the provisions of this Part relating to the duration of copyright the country of origin of a work shall be determined as follows.
(2) If the work is first published in a Berne Convention country and is not simultaneously published elsewhere, the country of origin is that country.
(3) If the work is first published simultaneously in two or more countries only one of which is a Berne Convention country, the country of origin is that country.
(4) If the work is first published simultaneously in two or more countries of which two or more are Berne Convention countries, then
(a) if any of those countries is an EEA state, the country of origin is that country; and
(b) if none of those countries is an EEA state, the country of origin is the Berne Convention country which grants the shorter or shortest period of copyright protection.
(5) If the work is unpublished or is first published in a country which is not a Berne Convention country (and is not simultaneously published in a Berne Convention country), the country of origin is
(a) if the work is a film and the maker of the film has his headquarters in, or is domiciled or resident in a Berne Convention country, that country;
(b) if the work is
(i) a work of architecture constructed in a Berne Convention country, or
(ii) an artistic work incorporated in a building or other structure situated in a Berne Convention country, that country;
(c) in any other case, the country of which the author of the work is a national.
(6) In this section
(a) a ―Berne Convention country‖ means a country which is party to any Act of the International Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works signed at Berne on 9th September 1886; and
(b) references to simultaneous publication are to publication within 30
days of first publication.

Which would suggest that if a work was published prior to 1923 in the US, and the US only, then its copyright would have expired in the UK, even if the author had died less than 70 years ago. If it was published within 30 days in both the US and somewhere in Europe, it would still be in copyright.
Nothing is ever that simple though.

I suspect that the Berne Convention rights come in through:

159 Application of this Part to countries to which it does not extend
(1) Her Majesty may by Order in Council make provision for applying in relation to a country to which this Part does not extend any of the provisions of this Part specified in the Order, so as to secure that those provisions -
(a) apply in relation to persons who are citizens or subjects of that country or are domiciled or resident there, as they apply to persons who are British citizens or are domiciled or resident in the United Kingdom, or
(b) apply in relation to bodies incorporated under the law of that country as they apply in relation to bodies incorporated under the law of a part of the United Kingdom, or
(c) apply in relation to works first published in that country as they apply in relation to works first published in the United Kingdom, or
(d) apply in relation to broadcasts made from that country as they apply in relation to broadcasts made from the United Kingdom.
(2) An Order may make provision for all or any of the matters mentioned in subsection (1) and may
(a) apply any provisions of this Part subject to such exceptions and modifications as are specified in the Order; and
(b) direct that any provisions of this Part apply either generally or in relation to such classes of works, or other classes of case, as are specified in the Order.
(3) Except in the case of a Convention country or another member State of the European Economic Community, Her Majesty shall not make an Order in Council under this section in relation to a country unless satisfied that provision has been or will be made under the law of that country, in respect of the class of works to which the Order relates, giving adequate protection to the owners of copyright under this Part.
(4) In subsection (3) "Convention country" means a country which is a party to a Convention relating to copyright to which the United Kingdom is also a party.
(5) A statutory instrument containing an Order in Council under this section shall he subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament

And for historic works, schedule 1 basically says that anything which was protected previously shall continue to be protected.

Which would afford US authors the same rights as UK ones, so back to life+70 again.

[gweeks]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Nothing is ever that simple though.

You have that right.

In Canada, even when the author is from another country it's simpler to use life+50. You can always count on that to be good. Except when the author is really a corporation, or when the work was fist published after the authors death. You get the idea. The US is just so screwy as to be almost indecipherable.

Greg Weeks