Series, series and more damned series!

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by BeccaPrice

I love series - I love to revisit old friends.

They are characters, not people.

Besides, you can always reread a book if you wanna more of a character. Oliver Twist anyone?

Here's what Stephen King said about story vs characterization:

"my deeply held conviction is that story must be paramount. . . . All other considerations are secondary - theme, mood, even characterization and language."

Read more on TeacherVision: http://www.teachervision.fen.com/hor...#ixzz1fgIMRIYf


I'd say a book is all about story and a series all about characters. I tend to agree with King.

Focusing on characters, specially well-known characters the audience already knows well, is limiting and puerile. There's no space for character development anymore: Sherlock Holmes and Harry Potter are already finished as they are -- you change them, the public complains.

Look at what is happening at comics, for instance, there's no way to milk away these guys anymore. They killed Superman, he's back and already they try to change his outfit for something more modern than a red underwear over wear, but he's still same Clark Kent as always. They made Peter Parker wed, have child, but he's still living same old adventures, beating same old villains with same old friendly punchlines. They try to reimagine the heroes in different universes to cater to different audiences, they even went so far as to put Marvel heroes as zombies in an appocaliptic universe. Yes, you heard it right. What's next in ridiculousness to appease series addicts? Superheroes as emo vampires? Characters don't even matter anymore, it's just like, "let's see what happens when popular character X faces ridiculous situation Y"


This gotta stop. Please some talented writer with real balls comes forth, writes a book with some damn good story and kills the protagonist at the end.

[DiapDealer]

This gotta stop. Please some talented writer with real balls comes forth, writes a book with some damn good story and kills the protagonist at the end.

Or at least says "no," when the publisher waves cash under their nose and says; "are you absolutely sure you don't have a sequel in you?"

[Andyp133]

Originally Posted by Quexos

I don't think he's ranting on any books content but rather on the concept of making series which becomes more and more systematic. Or so I understand.

I'ts very rare for me to by a book that is part of a series or if a book is written by an author who churns them out every 2 weeks in the one and only style that he/she knows. I may miss the odd quality book this way but in my experience it saves me from reading a pile of tripe! One style=no imagination and no talent. A re-hash of a previous book every 2 weeks= no imagination and no talent.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

The "chick" wasn't meant to be insulting. I'm a chick.

Would you call your grandmother a chick? Because she's reached that age....

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

But other than that, I see where you are coming from. That is my biggest issue with series that are written by people trying to make a $$ rather than trying to write a story. If the story is there the money will come... not the other way around.

And I don't think she's really doing it for the money. She's 74 years old! And I think there's the main problem in her case. There's simply too much time between writing the books and she wasn't getting any younger... Maybe she had the entire story in her head back then. But then she wanted too much detail and started too much studying it and thus lost the story? We'll never know unless we can go back in time and ask her when she first wrote about Ayla

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Would you call your grandmother a chick? Because she's reached that age....

Have and do! My grandmother is 86 years old and loving life! I also call her "lady" "chickie" and "G-Ma." Age is nothing but a number (unless you're underage)

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

Have and do! My grandmother is 86 years old and loving life! I also call her "lady" "chickie" and "G-Ma." Age is nothing but a number (unless you're underage)

Maybe it's because I'm not a native English speaker, but I find it sounds insulting... And let's leave it with that

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

Focusing on characters, specially well-known characters the audience already knows well, is limiting and puerile. There's no space for character development anymore: Sherlock Holmes and Harry Potter are already finished as they are -- you change them, the public complains.

I think that depends on how you do it. Harry Potter and his friends change between the first and the last book in the series, which isn't exactly surprising given their age. People change as they move through life and experience it, and a character that doesn't change as the world around him or her does, quickly becomes unrealistic.

[BeccaPrice]

Namekuseijin, this is an argument I have with my husband a lot. I really prefer character-driven stories, where the plot unfolds because the characters are who they are. (and ok, I was speaking metaphorically when I referred to favorite characters as "old friends."). My husband doesn't care much for the characters, but prefers plot-driven stories, where the characters act as the plot demands, not necessarily out of any internal consistency.

In a character-driven story, the story line is important, too... everything that makes up a good plot is necessary there, *in addition* to fully fleshed out characters who behave consistently.

comparisons with graphic novels don't do me any good - I don't read them.

[Hellmark]

I was just talking about this last night with my girlfriend. Too many series drag on too long. The Stephanie Plum books are on their 18th novel, 24 if you count the novellas and spinoffs, and their was just 5 months in between Smokin' Seventeen and Explosive Eighteen. After a while it gets too repetitive. Hell, even things that could be done to help rejuvinate the series are being ignored, such as when characters don't get mentioned for years at a time.

[RHWright]

What bothers me is that serials (the cliff-hanger ending) and series (another installment about the same characters/settings) have pushed the good, solid stand-alone novel to the wayside.

In part, we did it to ourselves. Fans love series.
In part, it's laziness on the part of publishers—it's simpler to market and sell the latest book in a series rather than a standalone, even from a popular author.
In part, it's authors caving to the pressure of the above: fans want it, publishers are paying for it, so QED.

I love a good series, too. Just wish the market made more room for great standalone works.

[Namekuseijin]

Yep, even Stephen King, a very solid example of a popular author of stand-alone novels, went on the series path in his Dark Tower series.

[DustyDisks]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

Yep, even Stephen King, a very solid example of a popular author of stand-alone novels, went on the series path in his Dark Tower series.

Which took forever plus one day to complete. What 30 years or so? Lucky I never lost any so I have the original paperback set. Except, keyhole.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by DustyDisks

Which took forever plus one day to complete. What 30 years or so? Lucky I never lost any so I have the original paperback set. Except, keyhole.

That's another thing: Name one example of a (se|pre)quel that was written 10+ years after the "last" book in a series that didn't fail utterly to meet expectations (enjoyment expectations, not sales expectations).

Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for Wind Through the Keyhole to be my first exception to that particular rule.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

Yep, even Stephen King, a very solid example of a popular author of stand-alone novels, went on the series path in his Dark Tower series.

Originally Posted by DustyDisks

Which took forever plus one day to complete. What 30 years or so? Lucky I never lost any so I have the original paperback set. Except, keyhole.

Exactly! I started reading that series Sophomore year of college, I think. I remember King threatening several times that he would never finish the Dark Tower (the series was actually called "Wizard and Glass" or something like that at the time). I was on book 4 when he made one of those statements and I never finished the series. Of course, I own the entire series but I've never finished it (damn OCD).

[DustyDisks]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

That's another thing: Name one example of a (se|pre)quel that was written 10+ years after the "last" book in a series that didn't fail utterly to meet expectations (enjoyment expectations, not sales expectations).

Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for Wind Through the Keyhole to be my first exception to that particular rule.

I can not comment on his latest in the series, I need to read it first.

And you are right, people grow and change over time (most ) so it will be interesting to see if his latest, blends with his earlier works. Tho to do it right I will have to read the last one before the newest, just to get synced back in to his style used in that series.