In Switzerland Downloading Copyrighted Materials for personal Use is Legal

[Belfaborac]

Just to elaborate and reminisce:

In the "old" days, when decent music stores still existed, I'd drop in 2, 3 or sometimes 4 times a week. I'd spend an hour or two perusing the shelves, pick up half a dozen records and saunter over to the counter behind which were 5 turntables (later swapped for CD players) and play 3 or 4 tracks of each record to check it out. Which meant I could make an informed decision about whether or not to buy.

That possibility no longer exists, so for me downloading has replaced it. Simple as that really. I listened to the records before buying them then and I listen to the records before buying them now. Personally I don't think that's too much to ask. After all, I don't buy anything else without knowing what I'm getting (with the possible exception of books) and I don't see why buying music should be a total crapshoot.

[carld]

Originally Posted by Belfaborac

If that was all you could be bothered to read, then I suppose it's vaguely understandable. It's a shame you didn't manage the remainder.

I did bother to read it actually. It's really just justification for downloading stuff for free. What's really a shame is that you feel the need to use thinly veiled insults to defend your position.

[Belfaborac]

I guess I could have foregone the veil completely, like you did, but I didn't like to.

[Fayth]

Originally Posted by Belfaborac

Just to elaborate and reminisce:

In the "old" days, when decent music stores still existed, I'd drop in 2, 3 or sometimes 4 times a week. I'd spend an hour or two perusing the shelves, pick up half a dozen records and saunter over to the counter behind which were 5 turntables (later swapped for CD players) and play 3 or 4 tracks of each record to check it out. Which meant I could make an informed decision about whether or not to buy.

That possibility no longer exists, so for me downloading has replaced it. Simple as that really. I listened to the records before buying them then and I listen to the records before buying them now. Personally I don't think that's too much to ask. After all, I don't buy anything else without knowing what I'm getting (with the possible exception of books) and I don't see why buying music should be a total crapshoot.

To be fair, don't most digital music outlets give you the ability to sample songs? Surely you didn't listen to every single track of every single album fully before you bought them? I mean, a minute and a half sample of each song is enough for me to tell whether I am interested or not.

[Belfaborac]

Originally Posted by Fayth

To be fair, don't most digital music outlets give you the ability to sample songs?

To also be fair, many online music outlets do and sometimes I'll use those facilities. I use downloads mainly for the sake of convenience and partly because it'll let me hear the full songs.

Surely you didn't listen to every single track of every single album fully before you bought them? I mean, a minute and a half sample of each song is enough for me to tell whether I am interested or not.

3 or 4 songs, like I said. A minute and a half is a lot more than you get many places though and believe it or not, there are still plenty stores which offer no samples at all. Particularly if your taste in music is as non-standard as mine.

[carld]

Originally Posted by Belfaborac

I guess I could have foregone the veil completely, like you did, but I didn't like to.

Please quote me where I insulted you the way you did me.

Edit: Actually never mind. I'm done with this conversation. I left this forum for a year because of insults and harassment resulting from arguments with pirates. I'm not going down that road again. Forget I said anything, and have a nice day.

[Fayth]

Ah I see. To be honest, I typically only buy movie and game soundtracks, and those pretty much always have samples.

[Belfaborac]

Originally Posted by carld

Forget I said anything, and have a nice day.

I will and I am.

[vigna04]

For odd reasons, I'll always pay for software, games but I don't feel the same towards downloading music

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by stonetools

In Pre- Internet days people bought their music based purely on recommendations and what they heard on the radio and from friends. Oddly enough , they bought and enjoyed more music than they do now.

You have some numbers to back that up?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

You cannot get them for free anymore?

It used to be that MS Windows and Office, Photoshop, Illustrator and a few other programs had such ineffective security that you could swap CDs with these programs and an included key in text form, and install them on as many PCs as you could find. No longer, since security has been upgraded, and each software requires you to verify online (and will disable the SW if it is already registered to a small number of users).

So I suppose Switzerland considers Microsoft and Adobe to be criminal organizations for preventing its citizens to download and use their software without paying.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

So I suppose Switzerland considers Microsoft and Adobe to be criminal organizations for preventing its citizens to download and use their software without paying.

Now we are getting somewhere.

We have moved beyond the idea of ownership, how can you/anyone honestly say that this "thing" (MS Windows) was created by "you", when it actually is dependent on the infinite? To quote Mr. Sagan, "If you wish to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe".

Switzerland, or rather someone who lives in that area, or a group of people in that area have decided that the furtherance of human understanding and the acquisition of knowledge is more important for the long term (permaculture) than a short term financial gain for MS.

The preceding paragraphs contained two distinct reasons for the
abolishment of copyright, they are both equally good.

What is money???????????? If we stopped using it what would happen?

?????

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by vigna04

For odd reasons, I'll always pay for software, games but I don't feel the same towards downloading music

People pay for what they think it's worth. Clearly you don't think music is any worth. In that case, you should question why listen to music in the first place if you don't think it's worthy enough.

well, considering people today enjoy trash music and junk food, not being worth anything seems to still being worth enough to fill in some holes.

Anyway, I find it hard to pay for anything made these days when you have Shakespeare or Beethoven for free. How does one up that?

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by karunaji

It is not ethical to enjoy creative content without duly compensating creators of these works. That much we can probably all agree with. The discussion is about what is due compensation.

Who is the creator? What if the consumer of said content has no "money", nor any means to access "money" Would a plate of cookies be adequate?

[Belfaborac]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

?????

Maybe not off topic, but certainly off the track and onto a path into the realm of metaphysics and wishful thinking.