Pricing sucks!

[leebase]

Originally Posted by DustyDisks

Understand the points.

It just would be a shame to see the older out of print books not converted, that may still have restrictions on them. Methinks there may be a chance if not converted, they maybe lost in time, in several ways. I have several on my mental list that I would love to get my hands on, the real books or at least in e format.

It would be a shame. The cure for this is being willing to pay a good price so that there is an incentive to bring these ebooks to market. Arguing for dirt cheap prices for backlist ebooks is an argument against their existence.

Lee

[dkb]

I question the statement that publishing authors' backlists isn't profitable. I think I've read of several authors who have made quite a bit of money on their backlist on ebooks by pricing them reasonably.

As leebase says, "Lots of sales at a low price takes money away from higher margin new books." This hurts midlist authors who would benefit from their backlists going to ebooks which is why many of them are self-pubbing or turning to Amazon which is good for those of us who think ebooks should be cheaper than print.

When I think the ebook price is unreasonable, I try to download it from the library. Unfortunately, several of the big six won't sell ebooks to libraries so then I put it on ereaderiq.com. If it's a book club selection, I buy it used. That way I haven't rewarded the publisher.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by leebase

Realistically, it is likely unprofitable to spend time and money publishing back catalogs. We won't have that problem in the future with ebooks that were released when a book first hits the market.

But for now, there are two problems. Either the expectation of low sales or high sales. Low sales is self explanatory....few copies times a small price simply isn't worth it.

Lots of sales at a low price takes money away from higher margin new books.

That's why the used book bin will never be the strike price for an ebook. If you want an ebook, the new paperback price is likely the lowest price we'll ever see. And then only as long as paper back books remain a significant market.

If I spend 15 hours reading a 20 year old novel, I'm just as entertained as reading a new novel for 15 hours. Why should I presume to pay less?

Lee

For new books the time is not far off (especially in the US) when pbook editions will just be a small percentage of sales.

As for backlist books, a cheap way to bring them to market would be just to offer scanned in and OCRed versions. With a disclaimer, to fend of those that think a relatively cheap ebook that is selling only in limited quantities should still be flawless perfection.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

For new books the time is not far off (especially in the US) when pbook editions will just be a small percentage of sales.

As for backlist books, a cheap way to bring them to market would be just to offer scanned in and OCRed versions. With a disclaimer, to fend of those that think a relatively cheap ebook that is selling only in limited quantities should still be flawless perfection.

I have it. Instead of hiring people to check the OCR, get the author to do it.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I have it. Instead of hiring people to check the OCR, get the author to do it.

The author is the last person in the world who should do it. The author is likely to see what should be there, rather than what is there. I'm sure you've heard the expression "a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client"; that's doubly true for proof-reading.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

Publishers have a responsibility to consider the market realistically.

Never heard that one before. Perhaps they should consider the market realistically, but they certainly have no duty to do so.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer

I can't think of any reason that a new ebook should ever cost more than its new pbook equivalent.

From what I've read, publishers depend on the process of distributing pbooks to generate the operating capital for their business. The end sellers, in essence, lend the publishers money against future sales, based on the number of pbooks they take into inventory. This number will usually exceed actual sales at any particular point in time (except for the initial Harry Potter release,) so that the publishers get upfront money for books that are, ultimately, not sold. Basically, the distribution process is also a financing mechanism.

Meanwhile, on the ebook side, there is no equivalent upfront money based on future sales for the publisher. There's no financing angle to the selling of ebooks. So the publisher relies on actual sales for whatever money it gets. It is as if the publisher never got any money for its pbooks except when there was an actual sale.

So it seems to me that there will be circumstances where the publisher charges more for the ebook, simply to get enough money to operate.

[carld]

And all those unsold books that were paid for upfront have to be returned at the publisher's expense. They actually get less than they would for actual sales. Despite this, publishers still made money. If they need to charge more for ebooks to generate enough revenue to stay afloat then they're a company headed for disaster.

While that may indeed be a reason for high ebook prices, it's a portent of looming failure for that company.

[gweeks]

Originally Posted by Harmon

From what I've read, publishers depend on the process of distributing pbooks to generate the operating capital for their business. The end sellers, in essence, lend the publishers money against future sales, based on the number of pbooks they take into inventory. This number will usually exceed actual sales at any particular point in time (except for the initial Harry Potter release,) so that the publishers get upfront money for books that are, ultimately, not sold. Basically, the distribution process is also a financing mechanism.

Meanwhile, on the ebook side, there is no equivalent upfront money based on future sales for the publisher. There's no financing angle to the selling of ebooks. So the publisher relies on actual sales for whatever money it gets. It is as if the publisher never got any money for its pbooks except when there was an actual sale.

So it seems to me that there will be circumstances where the publisher charges more for the ebook, simply to get enough money to operate.

That's pretty much backwards actually. The publisher is loaning money to the distributer in the form of unpaid books. The distributer only pays for them after some period of time. Sometimes as long as or longer than 90 days. It depends on the contract. That's what pushed Borders over the edge. The publishers changed their terms to cash up front before delivery, because Borders had not been paying their bills on time.

Greg Weeks

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by gweeks

That's pretty much backwards actually. The publisher is loaning money to the distributer in the form of unpaid books. The distributer only pays for them after some period of time. Sometimes as long as or longer than 90 days. It depends on the contract. That's what pushed Borders over the edge. The publishers changed their terms to cash up front before delivery, because Borders had not been paying their bills on time.

Greg Weeks

Remember, the issue is not "what is the system used for pbooks" but rather, "why would publishers charge more for ebooks than for pbooks?" No doubt I am wrong about the details (it's been a while since I've read about this,) but the fact remains that the distribution system for pbooks is, in some fashion, tied up with the financing system in a way that it is not with ebooks. And, that being the case, I can imagine that it impacts pricing decisions.

I'm sure that there are other reasons as well. I expect that a lot of publishers look at the pbooks as the "standard book" which will sell more copies & therefore require a smaller margin of profit than ebooks, which are the exception & sell fewer copies.

Personally, I think that publishers are making the same mistake as movie distributers. Rather than thinking that they have one product with different distribution systems, they think that they have competing products, and are trying to milk each product for the maximum profit within that product category. So they stagger the release dates, trying to move the product with the highest return first, and set different price points for each "separate" product. There is some merit to that viewpoint, since the products (movie, dvd, streaming) (hardback, paperback, ebook) are somewhat different, but at least in the case of movies, a recent study shows that by staggering release dates, the movie producers actually lose money.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by carld

And all those unsold books that were paid for upfront have to be returned at the publisher's expense. They actually get less than they would for actual sales. Despite this, publishers still made money. If they need to charge more for ebooks to generate enough revenue to stay afloat then they're a company headed for disaster.

While that may indeed be a reason for high ebook prices, it's a portent of looming failure for that company.

I don't think that they are trying to generate more revenue merely to stay afloat. I think they are trying to maximize profits.

The OP was talking about Watership Down. As I recall, that book in paperback was chunky. Personally, I would think that it's a situation where the ebook version has greater value than the pbook version because you eliminate the bulk. If enough people agree with me, then it makes economic sense for the publisher to charge more for the ebook than the paperback.

It appears to me that a lot of people think that if the costs of manufacturing a product goes down, the selling price for that product should also go down. But why should that be? If I make a pint of whiskey for 5 bucks & sell it for 10 bucks, why should I reduce my selling price if I figure out how to make the pint for 2 bucks? If the suckers...excuse me, I mean the customers...will continue to pay 10 bucks, and if I don't get more customers by reducing the price, then I'd be a fool to reduce my price.

[JSWolf]

But what is the reasoning behind the fact that agency eBooks cannot be put on sale or discounted while their pBooks can be discounted and put on sale?

[gweeks]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Remember, the issue is not "what is the system used for pbooks" but rather, "why would publishers charge more for ebooks than for pbooks?" No doubt I am wrong about the details (it's been a while since I've read about this,) but the fact remains that the distribution system for pbooks is, in some fashion, tied up with the financing system in a way that it is not with ebooks. And, that being the case, I can imagine that it impacts pricing decisions.

Yes, but you have the impact in the incorrect direction. With pbooks the publisher is providing the money to finance the book store. with ebooks they are not. That's an additional expense for pbooks that is not present for ebooks.

Greg Weeks

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But what is the reasoning behind the fact that agency eBooks cannot be put on sale or discounted while their pBooks can be discounted and put on sale?

This is my main gripe with pricing.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

This is my main gripe with pricing.

My guess is because of Amazon. This way, Amazon cannot have their $9.99 pricing on new hardcovers/best sellers.

Why is it when something happens with eBooks (something not good), Amazon is there in the middle of it all? This is not a slight against Amazon, but an observation based on what's been going on.