Troubleshooting Kindle and math formula

DrShakalu · 11-30-2011, 12:08 PM

Hey,

I've the following problem:
I've a couple of books and paper in pdf format and I want to read them at
Kindle 4, without zoom the text is to small to read. So I tried to convert the books and paper to a supported Kindle version. At first it seems to be working, but all mathematic formula, tables and figures are shown wrong. I guess the converter can't convert those things.

So has someone an idea how to solve this problem? Or does is there a converter that can work with figures, tables, math symbols and formula?

Thanks in advance & nice Greetings...

Dr. Shakalu

jswinden · 11-30-2011, 12:30 PM

Probably not a good solution for converting PDF where math formulas will look good. I wrote a math book for radio communications and the only good way I found to get the formulas to look right was to put them in image files. It was a tedious process where I used MS Word to create the formulas then took screen captures and resized them to fit the 600 x 800 E Ink screen. Unfortunately mobi does not support a math markup language.

....

DrShakalu · 11-30-2011, 12:43 PM

Thanks for your reply, but that doesn't sound really good. If I've to convert all my books and papers this way it will be a lot of work. I hope that there will be an other way....

jswinden · 11-30-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrShakalu

Thanks for your reply, but that doesn't sound really good. If I've to convert all my books and papers this way it will be a lot of work. I hope that there will be an other way....

Good luck. If you find a solution let us know. The small screens on E Ink readers are not very good for viewing tables, charts, math formulas, etc., so converting those is typically time consuming.

slm · 11-30-2011, 03:28 PM

As you probably know, the main Kindle format (azw) is essentially "mobi" which does not support the types of objects you are having trouble. Conversion programs have to use a kludge.

Amazon has another supported format (topaz) that sometimes do a better job, but there are no publicly available tools for it.

Amazon has announced a new format that will support most of the elements that are causing you a problem, but there are as yet no tools for converting existing files into that format.

Before you give up, you might want to try all three major conversion programs for generating mobi or azw file: Calibre, Kindlegen and Mobipocket Creator. (Mobipocket creator is the ancestor of Kindlegen, but it may do a better job with some of your elements.)

EbokJunkie · 11-30-2011, 03:56 PM

There exists a simple solution. However, it demands some efforts for conversion your math pdf to another pdf.
1. Download pdflrfwin-0.99.exe from http://projects.mobileread.com/reade...rfwin-0.99.zip
2. Run pdflrfwin-0.99.exe, browse for your pdf (djvu is ok as well) and set output file extension to zip (do it by hand in corresponding output file box, just replace lrf by zip)
3. In preview you can visually control and set margin crop.
4. Run pdflrfwin, it will create zip file with png images representing snapshots of half pages rotated in landscape position.
5. Open zip file and place all png images in separate folder.
6. Download any free tool capable to merge multiple png into single pdf (say, PDFill from http://www.pdfill.com/pdf_tools_free.html).
6. Merge all png in single pdf and read this pdf on your Kindle in landscape orientation.

This will work even on Kindle Touch (Touch is unable to turn screen image to landscape orientation) because all pages in resulting pdf are already 90 degrees rotated.
Note that pdflrf tries to cut pages between lines of text. However, in rare ocasions it cuts big formulas lengthwise, that may cause some problems.

tomsem · 11-30-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EbokJunkie

This will work even on Kindle Touch (Touch is unable to turn screen image to landscape orientation) because all pages in resulting pdf are already 90 degrees rotated.
Note that pdflrf tries to cut pages between lines of text. However, in rare ocasions it cuts big formulas lengthwise, that may cause some problems.

Except you will lose ability to search and annotate text and navigate the PDF TOC hyperlinks (KT allows this; not sure about K4). The best solution for K4 is to read the original PDF in landscape. For KT, there is a 'fit to width' zoom mode (double tap on text column) that works pretty well though I hope orientation option will show up with an update. I am rather thrilled about the PDF support that KT has added (it does not take much sometimes!).

In any case, conversion is a lost cause with material like this, unless someone is paying you by the hour.

EbokJunkie · 11-30-2011, 06:12 PM

I have many professional (electromagnetics) books both in pdf and djvu. For both formats, in all cases, pdflrf offers the only viable solution. Landscape on K3 doesn't help.
At least for now, there is no alternative to pdflrf on Touch for single column texts.
By the way, conversion of ~500 pages book takes about 10 minutes on my Dell XPS 9000.

tomsem · 11-30-2011, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EbokJunkie

I have many professional (electromagnetics) books both in pdf and djvu. For both formats, in all cases, pdflrf offers the only viable solution. Landscape on K3 doesn't help.
At least for now, there is no alternative to pdflrf on Touch for single column texts.
By the way, conversion of ~500 pages book takes about 10 minutes on my Dell XPS 9000.

Landscape has been adequate for the PDFs I have used on K3 (navigation without TOC/hyperlinks is a bummer however). But even on KT, the fit to width in portrait mode is quite useable for me, at least for book PDFs in the 6"x9" range (K3 lacks this). Documents formatted for letter/a4 not so much...I will definitely be lobbying Amazon for the orientation option they inexplicably left out.

One glitch with KT Fit to width mode is that it seems to zoom to 100% when it encounters an image (and the reverts to 'normal' ftw mode after you navigate the image in this fashion). Still, 2 or 3 column documents seem to work quite well ( I need to try some more examples, however).

DrShakalu · 12-01-2011, 05:47 AM

Thanks a lot EboJunkie - it worked fine! It will be a lot of work to convert all books, but it is works, so I have to convert all my books, like that!!!

Thanks for your good "tutorial"!!!!

EbokJunkie · 12-01-2011, 11:29 AM

DrShakalu
Thank you for your kind words.
Keep in mind another potentially useful item: k2pdfopt (http://www.willus.com/k2pdfopt).
Output is similar to pdflrf but (IMHO) usable only for two-three column articles. Those articles look very good, particularly IEEE articles. k2pdfopt automatically cuts them between columns and create single column output. As to other common one-column books, k2pdfopt cannot create fully justified output (lines are centered at best) and resulting text looks ugly.
Sure, as tomsem said, after graphic conversion we lose many good properties of standard text pdf but at least we acquire good reading material

willus · 12-10-2011, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EbokJunkie

DrShakalu
Thank you for your kind words.
Keep in mind another potentially useful item: k2pdfopt (http://www.willus.com/k2pdfopt).
Output is similar to pdflrf but (IMHO) usable only for two-three column articles. Those articles look very good, particularly IEEE articles. k2pdfopt automatically cuts them between columns and create single column output. As to other common one-column books, k2pdfopt cannot create fully justified output (lines are centered at best) and resulting text looks ugly.
Sure, as tomsem said, after graphic conversion we lose many good properties of standard text pdf but at least we acquire good reading material

K2pdfopt can do the same thing as pdflrf (as discussed in your multiple steps of instructions above), but in a much more automated fashion. Use command-line options: -ls -col 1 -wrap-
This will put the output in landscape mode (-ls), prevent column splitting (-col 1), and prevent line splitting/word wrapping (-wrap-).
(You can also do this through the interactive menu.)
As for text justification, see this page.
Lastly, k2pdfopt also converts djvu, like pdflrf.

Koko · 12-11-2011, 07:25 AM

Just want to share my experience. I have used similar way to jswinden's method, but a bit faster; where the text is text and formulas are as images. By using a text-recognition software (OCR software) like fineReader, you may draw image boxes around formulas in the book and text boxes around the text (some of this is done automatically, but you'll need to look it over). Then export to html and convert to e-book.

11-30-2011, 12:08 PM	#1
DrShakalu Junior Member Posts: 4 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2011 Device: Kindle v4	Kindle and math formula Hey, I've the following problem: I've a couple of books and paper in pdf format and I want to read them at Kindle 4, without zoom the text is to small to read. So I tried to convert the books and paper to a supported Kindle version. At first it seems to be working, but all mathematic formula, tables and figures are shown wrong. I guess the converter can't convert those things. So has someone an idea how to solve this problem? Or does is there a converter that can work with figures, tables, math symbols and formula? Thanks in advance & nice Greetings... Dr. Shakalu

11-30-2011, 12:30 PM	#2
jswinden Nameless Being	Probably not a good solution for converting PDF where math formulas will look good. I wrote a math book for radio communications and the only good way I found to get the formulas to look right was to put them in image files. It was a tedious process where I used MS Word to create the formulas then took screen captures and resized them to fit the 600 x 800 E Ink screen. Unfortunately mobi does not support a math markup language. .... Attached Thumbnails

11-30-2011, 03:56 PM	#6
EbokJunkie Addict Posts: 230 Karma: 13495 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SoCal Device: Kindle 3, Kindle PW, Pocketbook 301+, Pocketbook Touch, Sony 950, 350	There exists a simple solution. However, it demands some efforts for conversion your math pdf to another pdf. 1. Download pdflrfwin-0.99.exe from http://projects.mobileread.com/reade...rfwin-0.99.zip 2. Run pdflrfwin-0.99.exe, browse for your pdf (djvu is ok as well) and set output file extension to zip (do it by hand in corresponding output file box, just replace lrf by zip) 3. In preview you can visually control and set margin crop. 4. Run pdflrfwin, it will create zip file with png images representing snapshots of half pages rotated in landscape position. 5. Open zip file and place all png images in separate folder. 6. Download any free tool capable to merge multiple png into single pdf (say, PDFill from http://www.pdfill.com/pdf_tools_free.html). 6. Merge all png in single pdf and read this pdf on your Kindle in landscape orientation. This will work even on Kindle Touch (Touch is unable to turn screen image to landscape orientation) because all pages in resulting pdf are already 90 degrees rotated. Note that pdflrf tries to cut pages between lines of text. However, in rare ocasions it cuts big formulas lengthwise, that may cause some problems. Last edited by EbokJunkie; 11-30-2011 at 04:01 PM.

12-01-2011, 11:29 AM	#11
EbokJunkie Addict Posts: 230 Karma: 13495 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SoCal Device: Kindle 3, Kindle PW, Pocketbook 301+, Pocketbook Touch, Sony 950, 350	DrShakalu Thank you for your kind words. Keep in mind another potentially useful item: k2pdfopt (http://www.willus.com/k2pdfopt). Output is similar to pdflrf but (IMHO) usable only for two-three column articles. Those articles look very good, particularly IEEE articles. k2pdfopt automatically cuts them between columns and create single column output. As to other common one-column books, k2pdfopt cannot create fully justified output (lines are centered at best) and resulting text looks ugly. Sure, as tomsem said, after graphic conversion we lose many good properties of standard text pdf but at least we acquire good reading material Last edited by EbokJunkie; 12-01-2011 at 11:32 AM.

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11-30-2011, 12:43 PM	#3
DrShakalu Junior Member Posts: 4 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2011 Device: Kindle v4	Thanks for your reply, but that doesn't sound really good. If I've to convert all my books and papers this way it will be a lot of work. I hope that there will be an other way....

11-30-2011, 03:28 PM	#5
slm Fool Posts: 456 Karma: 4103210 Join Date: Feb 2003 Device: Kindle: Voyage,PW1,KOA, Kobo: Clara Colour, Nook GLP, Pocketbook verse	As you probably know, the main Kindle format (azw) is essentially "mobi" which does not support the types of objects you are having trouble. Conversion programs have to use a kludge. Amazon has another supported format (topaz) that sometimes do a better job, but there are no publicly available tools for it. Amazon has announced a new format that will support most of the elements that are causing you a problem, but there are as yet no tools for converting existing files into that format. Before you give up, you might want to try all three major conversion programs for generating mobi or azw file: Calibre, Kindlegen and Mobipocket Creator. (Mobipocket creator is the ancestor of Kindlegen, but it may do a better job with some of your elements.)

11-30-2011, 06:12 PM	#8
EbokJunkie Addict Posts: 230 Karma: 13495 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SoCal Device: Kindle 3, Kindle PW, Pocketbook 301+, Pocketbook Touch, Sony 950, 350	I have many professional (electromagnetics) books both in pdf and djvu. For both formats, in all cases, pdflrf offers the only viable solution. Landscape on K3 doesn't help. At least for now, there is no alternative to pdflrf on Touch for single column texts. By the way, conversion of ~500 pages book takes about 10 minutes on my Dell XPS 9000.

12-01-2011, 05:47 AM	#10
DrShakalu Junior Member Posts: 4 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2011 Device: Kindle v4	Thanks a lot EboJunkie - it worked fine! It will be a lot of work to convert all books, but it is works, so I have to convert all my books, like that!!! Thanks for your good "tutorial"!!!!

12-11-2011, 07:25 AM	#13
Koko thinking thing Posts: 57 Karma: 29556 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: xx	Just want to share my experience. I have used similar way to jswinden's method, but a bit faster; where the text is text and formulas are as images. By using a text-recognition software (OCR software) like fineReader, you may draw image boxes around formulas in the book and text boxes around the text (some of this is done automatically, but you'll need to look it over). Then export to html and convert to e-book.