When you are locked out of your $1000 worth Amazon library.

[HansTWN]

We shouldn't be too quick to judge Amazon, since we haven't heard their side of the story.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

We shouldn't be too quick to judge Amazon, since we haven't heard their side of the story.

True, especially as Amazon is our friend, but then we'd be denying the great American pastime of jumping to conclusions from a point of little knowledge and facts and turning those conclusions into concrete facts simply because we say so. The way of politics is the way of consumerism.

[dbeman]

Originally Posted by banjobama

I have a hard time feeling bad when people lose stuff they didn't care enough about to back up.

While the tech savvy among us certainly know the importance of backing up our files (and know how to circumvent that pesky copy protection) the average consumer usually doesn't learn this lesson until its too late. I can't really blame them either; part of Amazon's entire marketing campaign with the Kindle is that your entire library will be stored on their servers until the end of time. Its only when reading the fine print that you realize how you can get locked out of everything you've paid for; sometimes through no fault of your own.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

The article only talks about him being locked out of his Amazon *account.*

I.e.:


There is nothing at all about books being removed from his device (or any mention of his device at all, or what device it is). There are these two statements:



and



Both of which are consistent with him storing the books in the cloud.

I would think that someone whose books were removed from his device would at least mention that point, if not start off by saying something like "I went to read my Kindle and discovered that all of my books had been removed!" (Instead of talking about his account having a "hold" on it.)

But that is just an assumption. We don't know what else may have happened and the lack of information doesn't mean that one thing or another has happened.

[pidgeon92]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

But that is just an assumption. We don't know what else may have happened and the lack of information doesn't mean that one thing or another has happened.

Assumptions are all we have, as the complainant has failed to provide a lot of pertinent details.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

Assumptions are all we have, as the complainant has failed to provide a lot of pertinent details.

This is true. Which is why I am going to assume things happened the way the person in the article stated it happened until I am presented evidence to the contrary.

[Nexutix]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

This is true. Which is why I am going to assume things happened the way the person in the article stated it happened until I am presented evidence to the contrary.

Your lingo tells me you studied law and/or allied subjects.

The concern is, whatever happens will happen on consumer side. If it can happen once, it can happen again. Currently, educating/promoting newbie readers to preserve offline copies of their purchased books seems only way to avoid falling in valley of frustration.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

This is true. Which is why I am going to assume things happened the way the person in the article stated it happened until I am presented evidence to the contrary.

The problem is that taking that approach, noone would ever actually have been caught speeding, or drink driving, or so on, it would always have been a problem with the camera or testing equipment, or the police were out to get them, or someone had stolen their car.
If caught doing something stupid, people tend to either make up stories, or present only the portion of the facts that paints them in a good light.
As an extreme example, I'm guessing you don't actually believe there a lots of Nigerian princes out there having trouble getting to their million dollar bank accounts that need your help?
It is reasonable to approach peoples' stories with a certain amount of skepticism, and that level will depend on how cynical you are overall, I guess.

[MrsJoseph]

I'm just completely surprised by the "blame the victim" thing going on here. I mean, Amazon is our friend so there is no way things could have happened the way he said. And even if it did happen that way...it was still his fault, he should have done something that no one here even knows that he has knowledge of.

Cause as we all know, corporations never screw over their customers.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I'm just completely surprised by the "blame the victim" thing going on here. I mean, Amazon is our friend so there is no way things could have happened the way he said. And even if it did happen that way...it was still his fault, he should have done something that no one here even knows that he has knowledge of.

And I don't agree with the latter point that people are making at all.
He wasn't stupid to not back up his Amazon books, he was entitled to accept the representations he had been given that Amazon would do that for him. If he was blameless in the account being closed in the first place, then he is entirely blameless.
I just find it hard to swallow that Amazon would close the account of someone who had spent $1000 with them for no reason. They like people giving them money, and I think in general most people have found Amazon customer service very responsive, so on the balance of probabilities I think there is more to this story than we have been told.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by Nexutix

The concern is, whatever happens will happen on consumer side. If it can happen once, it can happen again. Currently, educating/promoting newbie readers to preserve offline un-DRMed copies of their purchased books seems only way to avoid falling in valley of frustration.

Fixed. Given most forms of DRM require the device you want to read on to be activated, that would mean if you get locked out of your account and you get a new computer or your device breaks or something, your DRM'ed backup copies are useless.

Frankly, if utilities to remove DRM didn't exist, I wouldn't be buying ebooks at all.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

And I don't agree with the latter point that people are making at all.
He wasn't stupid to not back up his Amazon books, he was entitled to accept the representations he had been given that Amazon would do that for him. If he was blameless in the account being closed in the first place, then he is entirely blameless.
I just find it hard to swallow that Amazon would close the account of someone who had spent $1000 with them for no reason. They like people giving them money, and I think in general most people have found Amazon customer service very responsive, so on the balance of probabilities I think there is more to this story than we have been told.

I can understand your feelings...but hasn't Amazon screwed customers in the past before? 1984 ring a bell for anyone? Lawsuits had to occur to ensure that situation doesn't happen again. Just because you haven't seen it happen a lot doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I can't see Amazon giving a $1000 gift card to someone AND encourage that person to open a new Amazon account if they closed his account based on some illegal/immoral/whatever rules. They would just close the account and move on. If a company decides that your current account is a problem, they've probably already washed their hands of you as a customer.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I can understand your feelings...but hasn't Amazon screwed customers in the past before? 1984 ring a bell for anyone? Lawsuits had to occur to ensure that situation doesn't happen again. Just because you haven't seen it happen a lot doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Let us not forget when Amazon censored books, deciding that LGBT books shouldn't be available. The one thing that Amazon has in ready supply are the canned excuses for why something happened that adversely affected consumers. In this regard, it is like Apple under Steve Jobs (remember to hold your iPhone only in the Jobs-approved manner. If you don't, Apple makes no warranty that the iPhone will work as expected or promised. It's your fault, not Apple's or Amazon's.)

Will the chorus please rise and give us a round or two of "Amazon is my friend. Amen."

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I can't see Amazon giving a $1000 gift card to someone AND encourage that person to open a new Amazon account if they closed his account based on some illegal/immoral/whatever rules.

I can. It's the sort of thing a company might do if they were given proof that they were in the wrong and the information they acted on in the first place was false.

Add to that, lots of digital vendors will lock down an account that has been compromised, most of the time by "hacking". Amazon may have decided that due to the amount of personal info that was compromised, or for any other reason, they didn't feel safe re-opening the compromised account. So instead they give the guy store credit for the amount he spent on his first account, so he can get all his books back if he wants to, and give him a new account that hasn't been compromised yet.

Not an unrealistic scenario at all. And if that's what happened, then the customer vastly over-reacted and should have simply provided whatever information Amazon asked for as proof of account ownership, rather than run to Mom/The Consumerist and scream about how someone stole his candy.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

I can. It's the sort of thing a company might do if they were given proof that they were in the wrong and the information they acted on in the first place was false.

Add to that, lots of digital vendors will lock down an account that has been compromised, most of the time by "hacking". Amazon may have decided that due to the amount of personal info that was compromised, or for any other reason, they didn't feel safe re-opening the compromised account. So instead they give the guy store credit for the amount he spent on his first account, so he can get all his books back if he wants to, and give him a new account that hasn't been compromised yet.

Not an unrealistic scenario at all. And if that's what happened, then the customer vastly over-reacted and should have simply provided whatever information Amazon asked for as proof of account ownership, rather than run to Mom/The Consumerist and scream about how someone stole his candy.

I disagree with that last part. Amazon - if the scenario above occurred - would have handled the issue better by saying:

"I'm sorry customer. Someone tried to hack your account so we had to shut it down. Here is a gift card for $XXXX and a list of all the digital media you have purchased per your account history. We apologize that the rest of your purchase history will no longer be available but you can access a .PDF/other format digital version by using this link for X time for saving or printing for your records."