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#46 | |
Wizard
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Karma: 14079267
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Almere, The Netherlands
Device: Kobo Sage
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#47 | |
Well trained by Cats
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Karma: 60358908
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Central Coast of California
Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A
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I have had 3 friends get their e-mail/ISP account hacked (all the same type: My wallet and Passport were stolen and I am stuck in the UK... Please send money.) The first thing the hackers did, was request password resets on all subscriptions (they can respond to the change request e-mail) they found references to, so Now you don't have access to fix your subscribed services. (Learned) Rule 1: Keep an alternate account to be able to notify your friends if this happens. Rule 2: Don't have any reference to that Alternate accounts in the Address book or stored documents. Rule 3: Keep LOCAL a backup (thumb drive) of any online address book in case you lose access or it becomes (deliberately) corrupted. Rule4: Don't store online, any list/mail showing what subscription you have (again use the ENCRYPTED thumb drive). |
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#48 |
Guru
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Karma: 4383958
Join Date: Nov 2007
Device: na
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I agree that it would be silly for a company to sue someone for stripping DRM on a product they've bought for the purpose of continued use of that product, but that doesn't mean it won't happen and be a costly affair to defend yourself, nor does it mean the person who has lost access to their account is an idiot for not doing so. Also, it doesn't mean the person who makes and distributes those tools everyone relies on to safe guard their purchases are any safer from prosecution. What would everyone say if AA stopped providing tools because of court threats and the existing tools become obsolete?
People in general don't know much if anything about DRM until it bites them, companies go out of their way to hide that it even exists or what its impact can have. There may very well be a lot of amazon customers now googling how to backup their purchases as a result of this story, who previously only stored a couple of books on their device and left the rest "backed up" in the archive. I don't think they're idiots for not having known to do so before hand. I've always removed drm on my purchases for various reasons, initially because my device wasn't compatible with the drm but now I have one that is, I remove it incase I later buy a replacement that isn't or I lose access to my account. But I as many of you on here are fully aware of the implications of DRM. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who isn't (which is a lot of people) who are attracted to the kindle/amazon because it's trivial to use. Yes there may be more to this story than has been reported, but based on what the article said, if amazon has refused to explain why the account is locked and if/when he would regain access, I see no reason for him not to dispute all the charges for the books he's lost access to. Last edited by JoeD; 11-24-2011 at 11:00 AM. |
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#49 |
Wizard
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Karma: 543210
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gatlinburg, Tennessee
Device: Kindles: Paperwhite Signature Ed., Oasis 2, Voyage
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#50 | |||
Grand Master of Flowers
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Karma: 8389072
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Naptown
Device: Kindle PW, Kindle 3 (aka Keyboard), iPhone, iPad 3 (not for reading)
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And, again, he is not being denied access to books he has downloaded or books he has on his device. Only books he kept in the cloud and nowhere else. |
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#51 | |
Addict
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Karma: 1202269
Join Date: Mar 2008
Device: Kindle
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#52 |
Wizard
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Karma: 9026681
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Colorado
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2nd Gen
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#53 | |
Addict
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Karma: 2064388
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: MN, US
Device: Kobo Touch, Asus Eee Pad Slider
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My generation's system goes a little more like this: you pay for it, and we allow you to touch it, but only until we want it back or decide we need more money and devise a way to make you buy it all over again. You're calling the customer an idiot for getting screwed by a business? This is sort of like the consumer version of "well, with that top she was wearing, she was asking for it." Amazon, their competition, and the publishers are loving the fact that the first ebook adopters are older and less tech-savvy than the first mp3 adopters were. It means they can get away with screwing customers for a little bit longer, while older users figure out how to protect themselves like the youngsters and the geeks already have. In the mean time, they've got plenty of time to lobby the government to make the act of users protecting themselves illegal. And they're supposed to just magically know this how? How did you find out about it? It's not like companies have ever been particularly forthcoming about the fact that they DRM, or what their DRM's can actually do to you and your content. I learned by getting bitten. Like most people did. And, probably, like most of you did. I think it's really odd that you're reading about someone who has basically been suckered out of a fairly large sum of money by a company, and your first reaction is to blame the customer for not breaking the law in order to protect themselves from said company. A company, no less, that is well-known to be untrustworthy even by the people who rave about how awesome they are. Do you not see what's wrong with that? 1. Why are you blaming the paying customer for the company's actions? 2. Why are you acting like it's normal and acceptable for companies to be this bad to their customers, and customers should compensate for that? 3. Why are you encouraging illegal behavior over, oh, I dunno, maybe pushing the company to be better to its customers? 4. How do some of you not see how your attitude of "blame the victim" relates to increased piracy? Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 11-25-2011 at 04:09 AM. |
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#54 |
Wizard
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Karma: 9026681
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Colorado
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2nd Gen
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#55 |
Addict
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: MN, US
Device: Kobo Touch, Asus Eee Pad Slider
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What the details of it are don't really matter to what my post was about - I'm responding to other people's reactions, who are taking it at face value. I'm not responding to the situation itself.
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#56 | |
Resident Curmudgeon
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Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
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#57 | |
Fanatic
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Virginia
Device: Nook Simple Touch
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Not sayin' that's what happened, but it is an example. It is obvious from the sad lack of detail that there is much more to the story. In fact, it could all be a bunch of b.s. Whose word do we have that it isn't? |
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#58 | |
Sith Wannabe
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Karma: 8017430
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: I'm not sure... it's kind of dark.
Device: Galaxy Note 4, Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Fire HD, Aluratek Libre
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Anyone who has ever worked in Customer Service for a company that does business online has been in a situation where an order or account has been blocked due to account activity that looks exactly like identity theft or credit card fraud. The customer then calls in to Customer Service, and SCREAMS. They cuss, they swear, they threaten chargebacks and legal action, in short, they are furious. 95% of the time, the fraud is real, and since we can't check photo ID over the phone, there is absolutely no way that we are going to lift a security hold off of the account just because a stranger tells us he is honest and we should believe him because he's honest. Screams and threats doesn't change that, neither does threats of lawsuits or of going to the press. Unfortunately, a furious customer refuses to realize this, and these support phone calls hardly ever end well. In this case, we don't have the whole story. We never will. But it takes two to tango, and two to fight and to keep a fight going, and Amazon, like any other vendor, would not have cut off a consumer who spends $1,000 a year in their store, unless they thought (correctly or incorrectly) they had a good reason for it. |
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#59 | |
Addict
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Location: MN, US
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First, that line of reasoning was not evident in the posters I was responding to. They were taking the article for what it says and decided the customer is to blame for the company's portrayed bad behavior. Whether it really is bad behavior? Sure, that's an open discussion. But not really pertinent to the mindset I was responding to. Second, I don't think that's strictly true. Big companies who know their users are either far too loyal or far too locked in to leave can and do take actions that may anger their customers without really caring about it. The company itself doesn't care about the customer service rep who will get yelled at by people who don't understand it's not their fault. They don't care if they make their customers angry - because they know most of them won't leave. Look at Facebook, Windows, and, well... Amazon. Regardless of if the customer was indeed commiting fraud or some other violation, a couple things strike me as strange. 1. Why no one told her why there was a hold, or got back to her. I've had my bank account locked for suspected fraud before (I withdrew a couple hundred bucks after I landed abroad). But when I called them and asked why my card wasn't working, they told me immediately what the hold was for and why. And it took a few hours to get it removed. Why can't Amazon do the same? 2. If someone is committing fraud and the account they're doing it through is suddenly locked I don't think they'd be shocked. And I certainly don't think they'd post it on the internet, because when the truth came out, they would obviously be the bad guy. Why would someone do that? Not saying it's not possible - just that this whole situation is screwed up. Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 11-24-2011 at 10:12 PM. |
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#60 | |
Sith Wannabe
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: I'm not sure... it's kind of dark.
Device: Galaxy Note 4, Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Fire HD, Aluratek Libre
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And admittedly, my opinion is somewhat tainted by spending nearly an hour yesterday on the receiving end of a rant about how my company has no right to make additional security checks before charging a credit card for nearly $2,000 and shipping it to an address the issuing credit card company had never heard of... ![]() |
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