Batteries that charge 10x faster and last 10x longer just 5-years out, scientists say

Dopedangel · 11-17-2011, 02:33 AM

These kinds of batteries would be perfect for eink readers. As you will need to charge once in 9-10 months So won't spoil as it wont need many recharges over its life.
So who do you think will come out with a reader with a battery lasting a year

http://www.bgr.com/2011/11/17/batter...cientists-say/

carpetmojo · 11-17-2011, 06:14 AM

Probably most of them, given that it doesn't affect many readers now, as most outlive the life of the readers use to original buyer.

Unless, naturally, the price is significantly more than at present.

kartu · 11-17-2011, 07:54 AM

IMHO reader devices are in the least need of it. Lasting for weeks is already good enough, compare it to mobile market, where tablets - smartphones typically need re-charging every 1-3 days.

But "just 5 years" doesn't sound very convincing...

Sil_liS · 11-17-2011, 09:21 AM

We will just get smaller batteries in ereaders. The devices will weigh less.

Penforhire · 11-17-2011, 01:41 PM

5 years to market? I'll believe it when I see it. So many of these technologies have proven elusive. But sure I want it!

Meanwhile, don't we see about an annual increase in NiMH battery capacities (maybe 20%) and behavior (Eneloop)? We also see reductions in processing and display power (I read somewhere that the energy per unit of processing power trend, performance per watt, has a longer history than Moore's Law!). I am amazed to see 10" media tablets at less than 2 lbs (e.g. iPad or Transformer Prime) rated at 10-odd hours of operation.

I think our mobile future is bright even if this tecnology doesn't make it to market.

Kevin8or · 11-17-2011, 06:08 PM

I don't know how applicable this technique might be to electric cars, but that's an area where "10x faster and 10x longer" would transform the market.

Pinecone · 11-17-2011, 08:40 PM

I think that they meant lasting 10x longer, is battery charge cycles, NOT how long between charges.

And lithium polymer batteries (the subset of Li Ion) are what we have in cell phones and readers. And there are batteries available today that can be charged in about 15 minutes from dead to fully charged. They are used in electric RC models.

But faster charging means more heat means less battery life (charge cycles).

Soldim · 11-18-2011, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinecone

I think that they meant lasting 10x longer, is battery charge cycles, NOT how long between charges.

From the article:

Quote:

battery life begins to decline quickly after about 150 charges with the technology in its current state

Fortunately, most batteries tend to last more than 15 cycles now-a-days

(they mention a battery-charge lasts for a week, but not for what application that is....)

RainingLemur · 11-19-2011, 09:59 PM

Wow. I'd love to see batteries with longer life like that, specifically in smartphones and netbooks.

SeaKing · 11-20-2011, 01:20 AM

If they were able to produce a battery of similar size of today's batteries that would provide 10 times the charge, then the manufacturers would just reduce the size of the device further.
Thinner and lighter with a battery the size of a dime but with the capacity of today's batteries. That is what they have been doing.

Soon the devices will be able to double as razor blades they are getting so thin. You will have a whole tablet built on a thin sheet of glass with a battery the size of a flea's leg.

Pinecone · 11-20-2011, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soldim

From the article:

Fortunately, most batteries tend to last more than 15 cycles now-a-days

(they mention a battery-charge lasts for a week, but not for what application that is....)

No, they said that the CURRENT batteries lose power after about 150 charge cycles. But with Lithium Polymer (lipo) cells that depends on the discharge rate, charge rate, how fully you charge it, how long it is stored at full charge, and how low you discharge it.

Exceed the safe limits in any one of the categories and the life of the battery may be as low as a single charge/discharge cycle.

With current lipo technology I can take a pack and fully charge it in under 20 minutes, fully discharge it in about 3 minutes, and still get over a 100 a cycles of life.

But if I charge slower, discharge slower, not fully charge, and limit level of discharge, I can get many hundreds of cycles. And this is what they do with many consumer devices.

markbot · 11-20-2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dopedangel

These kinds of batteries would be perfect for eink readers. As you will need to charge once in 9-10 months So won't spoil as it wont need many recharges over its life.
So who do you think will come out with a reader with a battery lasting a year

http://www.bgr.com/2011/11/17/batter...cientists-say/

If this is true, the price of oil should plummet because the demand for oil should decrease as cars go electric. Coal are nuclear are a lot more efficient sources of energy.

Joe Minton · 11-20-2011, 12:29 PM

Under standard test conditions, most LiPo batteries last about 400 full charge cycles before losing 20% of their capacity. This means that they could be half-charged about 800 times with the same loss. They also wear-out just sitting on the shelf over a several-year period. They store best at 50% charge. LiPos stored fully charged can lose 20% or more of their capacity in a year; when stored @ 50%, the loss is more like 4%. Depending on construction and chemistry details, they can be charged at up to 3C (20-minutes to full charge) but the standard charge rate is 1C (one hour to full charge).

LiIo batteries, such as used in the GM Volt can be charged at very high rates (I heard of 40C!) without harm. They have a long life, perhaps 1000 full charges. They weigh about twice an equivalent LiPo.

A Stanford research scientist announced, a couple of years ago, that the capacity of given-sized LiPo cells could be increased 10 times. These cells depend on surface chemistry and he found a way to increase the surface area 10 times. He stated that such up-rated batteries could see production within a few years -- Im waiting.

Joe

Pinecone · 11-20-2011, 05:59 PM

Actually I know of cells that have been damaged (significantly reduced capacity) when left fullly charged (4.2 volts per cell) for a couple of weeks.

And 50% charge is not the optimum for life based on holding that charge. It is the optimum compromise between low voltage storage and not worrying about self discharge causing the the cell to go below the minimum voltage.

pdurrant · 11-20-2011, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinecone

I think that they meant lasting 10x longer, is battery charge cycles, NOT how long between charges.

Much to my surprise, no. Quoting from the article:

Even after 150 charges, which would be one year or more of operation, the battery is still five times more effective than lithium-ion batteries on the market today,” Dr. Kung said.

So charge capacity when new is 10 times current batteries, reducing to 5 time current batteries after 150 cycles, and 'declining quickly' after that.

It sounds like really a important invention. And being a modification of existing tech, perhaps five years out isn't out of the question.

11-17-2011, 02:33 AM	#1
Dopedangel Wizard Posts: 1,798 Karma: 30548723 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Singapore Device: Boyue	Batteries that charge 10x faster and last 10x longer just 5-years out, scientists say These kinds of batteries would be perfect for eink readers. As you will need to charge once in 9-10 months So won't spoil as it wont need many recharges over its life. So who do you think will come out with a reader with a battery lasting a year http://www.bgr.com/2011/11/17/batter...cientists-say/

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11-17-2011, 06:14 AM	#2
carpetmojo Wizard Posts: 3,117 Karma: 9269999 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: UK Device: Sony- T3, PRS650, 350, T1/2/3, Paperwhite, Fire 8.9,Samsung Tab S 10.5	Probably most of them, given that it doesn't affect many readers now, as most outlive the life of the readers use to original buyer. Unless, naturally, the price is significantly more than at present.

11-17-2011, 07:54 AM	#3
kartu PRS+ author Posts: 1,637 Karma: 2446233 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Sony PRS-300, 505, 600, 650, 950	IMHO reader devices are in the least need of it. Lasting for weeks is already good enough, compare it to mobile market, where tablets - smartphones typically need re-charging every 1-3 days. But "just 5 years" doesn't sound very convincing...

11-17-2011, 09:21 AM	#4
Sil_liS Wizard Posts: 4,896 Karma: 33602910 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: PocketBook 903 & 360+	We will just get smaller batteries in ereaders. The devices will weigh less.

11-17-2011, 01:41 PM	#5
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	5 years to market? I'll believe it when I see it. So many of these technologies have proven elusive. But sure I want it! Meanwhile, don't we see about an annual increase in NiMH battery capacities (maybe 20%) and behavior (Eneloop)? We also see reductions in processing and display power (I read somewhere that the energy per unit of processing power trend, performance per watt, has a longer history than Moore's Law!). I am amazed to see 10" media tablets at less than 2 lbs (e.g. iPad or Transformer Prime) rated at 10-odd hours of operation. I think our mobile future is bright even if this tecnology doesn't make it to market.

11-17-2011, 06:08 PM	#6
Kevin8or Guru Posts: 977 Karma: 43409226 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Bay Area, CA Device: Kindle 3	I don't know how applicable this technique might be to electric cars, but that's an area where "10x faster and 10x longer" would transform the market.

11-17-2011, 08:40 PM	#7
Pinecone Guru Posts: 902 Karma: 1660722 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Maryland Device: PRS-650, PRS-600, PRS-350	I think that they meant lasting 10x longer, is battery charge cycles, NOT how long between charges. And lithium polymer batteries (the subset of Li Ion) are what we have in cell phones and readers. And there are batteries available today that can be charged in about 15 minutes from dead to fully charged. They are used in electric RC models. But faster charging means more heat means less battery life (charge cycles).

11-19-2011, 09:59 PM	#9
RainingLemur Spork Connoisseur Posts: 2,355 Karma: 16780603 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: Nook Color	Wow. I'd love to see batteries with longer life like that, specifically in smartphones and netbooks.

11-20-2011, 01:20 AM	#10
SeaKing Frequent Flier Posts: 1,282 Karma: 2058993297 Join Date: Oct 2011 Device: KB kindle aboard, Galx Tab 7.0 Plus, trying out Droid 1 as mini-tab	If they were able to produce a battery of similar size of today's batteries that would provide 10 times the charge, then the manufacturers would just reduce the size of the device further. Thinner and lighter with a battery the size of a dime but with the capacity of today's batteries. That is what they have been doing. Soon the devices will be able to double as razor blades they are getting so thin. You will have a whole tablet built on a thin sheet of glass with a battery the size of a flea's leg.

11-20-2011, 12:29 PM	#13
Joe Minton eReader Posts: 60 Karma: 31585 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Southern California Device: Sony 650, iPod Touch 4G, iPhone 4, Nook: Touch/Glow/Color/Tablet	Under standard test conditions, most LiPo batteries last about 400 full charge cycles before losing 20% of their capacity. This means that they could be half-charged about 800 times with the same loss. They also wear-out just sitting on the shelf over a several-year period. They store best at 50% charge. LiPos stored fully charged can lose 20% or more of their capacity in a year; when stored @ 50%, the loss is more like 4%. Depending on construction and chemistry details, they can be charged at up to 3C (20-minutes to full charge) but the standard charge rate is 1C (one hour to full charge). LiIo batteries, such as used in the GM Volt can be charged at very high rates (I heard of 40C!) without harm. They have a long life, perhaps 1000 full charges. They weigh about twice an equivalent LiPo. A Stanford research scientist announced, a couple of years ago, that the capacity of given-sized LiPo cells could be increased 10 times. These cells depend on surface chemistry and he found a way to increase the surface area 10 times. He stated that such up-rated batteries could see production within a few years -- Im waiting. Joe

11-20-2011, 05:59 PM	#14
Pinecone Guru Posts: 902 Karma: 1660722 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Maryland Device: PRS-650, PRS-600, PRS-350	Actually I know of cells that have been damaged (significantly reduced capacity) when left fullly charged (4.2 volts per cell) for a couple of weeks. And 50% charge is not the optimum for life based on holding that charge. It is the optimum compromise between low voltage storage and not worrying about self discharge causing the the cell to go below the minimum voltage.