Authors Guild: Claims Kindle Lending Library is a breach of contract - Page 2

JSWolf · 11-16-2011, 07:04 PM

I knew publishers would not want to allow their eBooks to be borrowed from Amazon. And now they've said so and Amazon is still planning to go ahead with this. Well, in this case, Amazon is wrong and should get sued big time for this.

thebestjeter · 11-16-2011, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I knew publishers would not want to allow their eBooks to be borrowed from Amazon. And now they've said so and Amazon is still planning to go ahead with this. Well, in this case, Amazon is wrong and should get sued big time for this.

What's the difference between borrowing from a Digital Library and from Amazon? Publishers get more benefits from the Amazon Owner's Library Lending since they get paid from "every" copy lent.

Soldim · 11-17-2011, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I knew publishers would not want to allow their eBooks to be borrowed from Amazon. And now they've said so and Amazon is still planning to go ahead with this. Well, in this case, Amazon is wrong and should get sued big time for this.

Do you need a licence to start a library in the US? As far as I am aware not ...

So if Amazon legally purchases as many books as they loan at any one time they are in the clear. It is, once more, the issue that the publishers try to control what is being done with property bought from them after the purchase.

Fbone · 11-17-2011, 08:29 AM

I believe the Guild are more concerned with the ebooks Amazon doesn't need to purchase individually. They reached some type of agreement with certain publishers for a one-time payment for use of their ebooks in their Prime lending system. How do the publishers pay royalty fees to their authors?

Soldim · 11-17-2011, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fbone

I believe the Guild are more concerned with the ebooks Amazon doesn't need to purchase individually. They reached some type of agreement with certain publishers for a one-time payment for use of their ebooks in their Prime lending system. How do the publishers pay royalty fees to their authors?

From reading the article and the post on the Authors Guild (that's rather 1880s to me

) blog it seems they do have an issue with Amazon, not with the respective publishers.

murraypaul · 11-17-2011, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepyBob

But Amazon is paying them the wholesale rate for those books. If a seller charges $6.99 per book purchased, and that is what they get paid, how can they complain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

Haha, yeah. Like the article points out, it's no different to how a library functions, except that they'll actually get paid for each 'withdrawal' here. If anything traditional libraries 'devalue' books more.

Because they made a point of saying that they would pay a wholesale rate for the book. If they were paying the same retail rate they would pay for a normal sale of the $6.99 book, why wouldn't they have said so?

murraypaul · 11-17-2011, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebestjeter

What's the difference between borrowing from a Digital Library and from Amazon? Publishers get more benefits from the Amazon Owner's Library Lending since they get paid from "every" copy lent.

The difference is that publishers get to choose to agree or not agree to add their books to the Overdrive libraries (and some have chosen not to). Amazon is adding their books even after they have said no.

Phogg · 11-17-2011, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =X=

Interesting....

Given the past behavior of the Author's Guild, having them bash you is actually a plus.

pdurrant · 11-17-2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Because they made a point of saying that they would pay a wholesale rate for the book. If they were paying the same retail rate they would pay for a normal sale of the $6.99 book, why wouldn't they have said so?

Wholesale rate is the amount Amazon pay publishers for an ebook sale. Retail rate is the amount a customer pays Amazon for an ebook sale.

The problem (IMO) isn't those authors who works are being included in the lending programme in this manner. The problem is books where the publishers has signed up with Amazon for a fixed fee for including their catalogue in the scheme. Authors haven't given their publishers the authority to enter into such a scheme.

ekaser · 11-17-2011, 01:04 PM

Actually, the Author's Guild problem with Amazon's Prime Lending is probably the fact that "traditional publishers" only pay authors around 15% of NET, and 'net' is generally undefined in most current publishing contracts, so it's pretty much whatever the publisher SAYS it is, and most authors who are 'traditionally' published are being raped on ebook sales. Author Kristine Kathryn Rusch (sci-fi, fantasy, mystery, romance, you-name-it, also ex-editor and ex-publisher herself) has been blogging for a year or more on the changes in the publishing industry, and this week's blog is very time-appropriate for this forum's subject. You can read it at:

How Traditional Publishers Are Making Money

Previous weekly blogs covered pretty much everything about the rapidly changing landscape in traditional, independent and self publishing. She knows her stuff, and they're WELL worth reading (if you care about publishing, authors, agents, writing, etc).

howyoudoin · 11-17-2011, 01:23 PM

Why are they having a go at Amazon instead of at their publishers?

covfam · 11-17-2011, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

Why are they having a go at Amazon instead of at their publishers?

Thats the thing i dont understand, if the publisher is making deals that arent in the authors best wishes then raise hell with them. Amazon pays the publishers what the publishers accept/allow if its not enough then dont attack the merchant attack the publisher that is doing you wrong or allowing merchants to do you wrong.

Isnt that kinda the whole point of hiring a publisher instead of self publishing?

rhadin · 11-18-2011, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

Why are they having a go at Amazon instead of at their publishers?

Because in most cases, apparently, the publisher said no and Amazon went ahead with the plan anyway, ignoring the publisher.

Just remember that Amazon is your friend and thus would never shaft you in its own interest. As long as you remember that, you will have no need to question the righteousness of any Amazon decision, even a decision that shafts you.

avantman42 · 11-18-2011, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I knew publishers would not want to allow their eBooks to be borrowed from Amazon. And now they've said so and Amazon is still planning to go ahead with this. Well, in this case, Amazon is wrong and should get sued big time for this.

It's been suggested that Amazon's contract with publishers probably allows them to lend books and pay publishers the same as if they'd sold the book. If that's the case, then Amazon haven't done anything wrong. Of course, no-one really knows for sure whether or not that is the case, unless they've read the relevant contracts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

The problem is books where the publishers has signed up with Amazon for a fixed fee for including their catalogue in the scheme. Authors haven't given their publishers the authority to enter into such a scheme.

I agree, but again, it depends on what the contract says. If the contract that the author has with the publisher allows the publisher to sign books up to this kind of deal, then the publisher hasn't done anything wrong. If the contract doesn't say that, then the authors should be complaining to their publishers. It may be that the contracts do allow this, but many authors don't realise it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soldim

From reading the article and the post on the Authors Guild (that's rather 1880s to me

) blog it seems they do have an issue with Amazon, not with the respective publishers.

Apparently publishers are concerned that people will stop paying for ebooks. From the article:

Quote:

publishers are concerned about consumer expectations of pricing. If a consumer can get e-books seemingly for free through the Kindle Lending Library, they may decide to stop paying for e-books, something that would be devastating to publishers who are trying to make the transition from print to e-books.

howyoudoin · 11-18-2011, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

Because in most cases, apparently, the publisher said no and Amazon went ahead with the plan anyway, ignoring the publisher.

Just remember that Amazon is your friend and thus would never shaft you in its own interest. As long as you remember that, you will have no need to question the righteousness of any Amazon decision, even a decision that shafts you.

Ignoring the pointless rhetoric, what prevents the authors from getting paid by their publishers now?

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11-16-2011, 07:04 PM	#16
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 80,727 Karma: 150249619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I knew publishers would not want to allow their eBooks to be borrowed from Amazon. And now they've said so and Amazon is still planning to go ahead with this. Well, in this case, Amazon is wrong and should get sued big time for this.

11-17-2011, 08:29 AM	#19
Fbone Is that a sandwich? Posts: 8,313 Karma: 103930826 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: Nook Glowlight Plus	I believe the Guild are more concerned with the ebooks Amazon doesn't need to purchase individually. They reached some type of agreement with certain publishers for a one-time payment for use of their ebooks in their Prime lending system. How do the publishers pay royalty fees to their authors?

11-17-2011, 01:04 PM	#25
ekaser Opinion Artiste Posts: 301 Karma: 61464 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Albany, OR Device: Nexus 5, Nexus 7, Kindle Touch, Kindle Fire	Actually, the Author's Guild problem with Amazon's Prime Lending is probably the fact that "traditional publishers" only pay authors around 15% of NET, and 'net' is generally undefined in most current publishing contracts, so it's pretty much whatever the publisher SAYS it is, and most authors who are 'traditionally' published are being raped on ebook sales. Author Kristine Kathryn Rusch (sci-fi, fantasy, mystery, romance, you-name-it, also ex-editor and ex-publisher herself) has been blogging for a year or more on the changes in the publishing industry, and this week's blog is very time-appropriate for this forum's subject. You can read it at: How Traditional Publishers Are Making Money Previous weekly blogs covered pretty much everything about the rapidly changing landscape in traditional, independent and self publishing. She knows her stuff, and they're WELL worth reading (if you care about publishing, authors, agents, writing, etc).

11-17-2011, 01:23 PM	#26
howyoudoin how YOU doin? Posts: 1,100 Karma: 7371047 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: India Device: Kindle Keyboard, iPad Pro 10.5”, Kobo Aura H2O, Kobo Libra 2	Why are they having a go at Amazon instead of at their publishers?