Book publisher files mass BitTorrent lawsuit

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Hey gang! When you guys are all done here, I know this site where we can get free Harry Potter ebooks.

[Rob Lister]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

He seems to be talking about downloaders, not uploaders. I'm with Jan, it is the original uploader that is at fault, assuming there is any fault, because they are an unauthorised publisher. Anyone else is just taking advantage of an opportunity given to them and may not even know they are doing anything wrong.

Upload and Download. With a torrent, the distinction is almost meaningless. So since every downloader is a simultaneous uploader, everyone having a copy can be said to be at fault (except the last guy in line, I suppose).

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I strongly disagree with you. Downloading copyrighted material without the permission of the copyright holder is against the law, and ignorance of the law is not an excuse. Certainly the uploader is committing the greater offence, but the downloader is certainly also at fault and should be held to account. Of course, when it comes to torrent users, downloaders are generally also uploaders.

Agreed.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

Careful, you might get eaten!!!

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Careful, you might get eaten!!!

LOL ...he's safe. I don't eat food that makes me laugh

[sabredog]

Legalities aside, publishers are still barking the same tired old mantra.

It would be actually worthwhile (I think this has been undertaken before?) to see a fully independent analysis of these industry claims that EVERY downloaded ebook is lost sale.

Might as well expand that to the music and entertainment industry while they are at it.

Bullshite is bullshite whichever way it looks and smells and two wrongs do not make a right on any day of the week.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Legalities aside, publishers are still barking the same tired old mantra.

It would be actually worthwhile (I think this has been undertaken before?) to see a fully independent analysis of these industry claims that EVERY downloaded ebook is lost sale.

Might as well expand that to the music and entertainment industry while they are at it.

Bullshite is bullshite whichever way it looks and smells and two wrongs do not make a right on any day of the week.

Gotta agree with this

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Legalities aside, publishers are still barking the same tired old mantra.

You seem to be criticising publishers for "daring" to want to prosecute people who are taking their products without paying for them. It doesn't matter how much the claimed damages may or may not be - it is 110% the illegal downloaders and uploaders who are at fault here, not the publishers.

[crossi]

No one is talking about "fault". Just the stupidity of going after pirates this way and the lying claim that every download is a lost sale. And the stupidity of DRM in general as a means of preventing "lost" sales.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by crossi

No one is talking about "fault". Just the stupidity of going after pirates this way

How else would you suggest that they be prosecuted? You're not suggesting that piracy is acceptable, and that people who break the law SHOULDN'T be prosecuted, are you?

And the stupidity of DRM in general as a means of preventing "lost" sales.

I don't believe anyone's mentioned DRM in this discussion. What is its relevance to this case?

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by sabredog

It would be actually worthwhile (I think this has been undertaken before?) to see a fully independent analysis of these industry claims that EVERY downloaded ebook is lost sale.

Just as wrong as those that claim that NO downloaded ebook is a lost sale.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Just as wrong as those that claim that NO downloaded ebook is a lost sale.

This is pretty simple: if the person downloading ebooks still buys some books (e or p) then that should be proof enough that they wouldn't have bought what they downloaded if it would cost them what the publisher asked for.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You seem to be criticising publishers for "daring" to want to prosecute people who are taking their products without paying for them. It doesn't matter how much the claimed damages may or may not be - it is 110% the illegal downloaders and uploaders who are at fault here, not the publishers.

I am not questioning their right to take those to a civil court they believe have breached copyright, rather their dubious claims that every download equals a lost sale.

You might want to re-read what I have written.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by sabredog

I am not questioning their right to take those to a civil court they believe have breached copyright, rather their dubious claims that every download equals a lost sale.

You might want to re-read what I have written.

Plus the fact that if they want to make money at their business, it certainly is going to cost more to take every book downloader to court than the "potential" loss they believe they have suffered. Somewhere there must be reached a middle ground the true pirate sites that are supplying the illegal merchandise should be prosecuted as well as selected cases of blatant theft of property (e.g. dowloading) but the real change needs to be in user behavior and ethics which is very difficult to change.

I am a vehement defender of authors rights and honest in paying for what one consumes, but the technology makes it very difficult. And certainly DRM and the DCMA do not address the problem but in reality make it more prevalent.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Somewhere there must be reached a middle ground the true pirate sites that are supplying the illegal merchandise should be prosecuted as well as selected cases of blatant theft of property (e.g. dowloading) but the real change needs to be in user behavior and ethics which is very difficult to change.

How about simple citations for illegally downloading copyrighted material; like a traffic ticket? Downloading an illegal copy of Harry Potter is no worse than making an illegal left turn; and should be treated that way.