I'm going to destroy Android because is a stolen product: Steve Jobs

[jtdolphins]

Originally Posted by wodin

My understanding is the Desktop browser will support it, but the mobile one won't. They'll do it by not allowing plugins on the mobile app, but they'll still be available on the desktop.

It looks like your right about that. That makes a lot more sense to me. I had to look it up after reading your post. Its been bother me since I heard about it. The idea of dropping flash for a desktop seemed rather bold for Microsoft. Microsoft and bold haven't gone together for a long time. Maybe windows 8 can change that.

[mldavis2]

There is no question that Jobs was a genius. But he was also ruthless. One of the reasons I avoid Apple products is because of their attitude of wanting absolute control (monopoly) and planned obsolescence. I went with the PC when the Mac came out years ago because of cost, expandability and availability of 3rd party hardware. I didn't want a device sealed in a box, and I still don't like the efforts at maintaining proprietary exclusivity for components. I also don't like expensive devices with sealed batteries that require you to throw the device away and buy a new one when the battery fades away. Jobs wanted it all, and his products leave a long string of evidence as to his intentions as well as his successes and failures, his genius and his lack of common sense.

[5thWiggle]

Oh, I know I shouldn't be getting into this (and I'm sorry mldavis2 for seeming to single you out) but......

One of the reasons I avoid Apple products is because of their attitude of wanting absolute control (monopoly)

Other people see it as supplying a system (hardware + OS) guaranteed to work together (Certified by Microsoft anyone?)

...and planned obsolescence.

Of the two Mac models I've owned, they have been supported for 11yrs (Se/30 System 6 to System 8.1) and 7yrs (G4 System 9 to OSX tiger). As for planned obsolescence for phones, is there any smartphone manufacturer out there (Android, IOS, BB,etc) that doesn't do that?

I also don't like expensive devices with sealed batteries that require you to throw the device away and buy a new one when the battery fades away.

Got a replaceable battery on that Kindle, do you? This started loooong before Apple. I've changed the battery on my Palm TE2, but only because I'm handy with a soldering iron.


I've used many operating systems and hardware architectures over the years. No one system is right for everybody, or indeed right for every situation, but because it doesn't fit YOU doesn't mean it's not perfect for someone else.


[5thWiggle deploys a defensive ring of Vorple Bunnies, and hunkers down until the fireballs pass]

[mldavis2]

There's no argument here @5thWiggle. Buy what you like and like what you buy.

For novice users, and in the early days for graphics users, Apple was arguably a better choice. It was about 50% more expensive to purchase which is one major reason I went the other way. A hard drive, for example, was about twice as expensive for a Mac as for a PC because you could only get one from Apple, when you could buy a HD for a PC from Seagate, Western Digital, etc. Additionally, the PC runs, and always has run, more software than Apple. Many applications were only available for the PC and not the Apple which is why Apple finally came up with a PC-clone OS, which is a bit hypocritical in view of Jobs attitude toward the smartphone patents. So when I started, Apple was a rich man's toy with no "hackability." It was a no-brainer for me. Obviously others chose to differ and Apple survived. I still build my own desktop computers and have three in operation that date back to Windows 3.1 in the early '90's. My PC is clearly my choice for heavy-duty applications such as gaming and digital editing with an over-clocked CPU and high-end graphics card which I can now afford, hardware items that are difficult if not impossible to implement on a Mac.

I have two Apple iPod devices, a Shuffle and a Nano. Both are trash because the batteries are worn out. I will not purchase another hand-held device from Apple unless the battery is reasonably easy to replace and there are no equivalent choices. I do not own, nor do I want or need a "smart" phone.

And, no, I hate the Kindle's "unreplacable" battery, although I know how to replace it when I need to. I cleared that fence before I bought one.

I have nothing against Apple even though my own experience is far less than satisfactory. I was simply objecting to the heavy-handed control that Apple has always seemed to seek for its products. The statement header by Steve Jobs is indicative of his philosophy. Perhaps the courts will agree with his view, I suspect not. He simply wanted monopolistic control of the airwaves.

If you like a "turn it on" boxed system, there is nothing wrong with Macs today. I would probably recommend one for a well-heeled senior citizen like my in-laws should they ever see the need for a computer. I prefer to roll my own. I started back in the days of Compuserve with an Atari 800 and I've replaced a couple of hard drives but never had a computer failure otherwise, never a virus, never a problem, never a software program that I wanted that my computers could not run. I buy what I like and like what I buy.

Cheers!

[karunaji]

Originally Posted by 5thWiggle

Other people see it as supplying a system (hardware + OS) guaranteed to work together (Certified by Microsoft anyone?)

We all are not other people Apple has superior style which is nice but not very important to many professional needs. Except artists, of course.

On his defense regarding the total control, I would say that all companies are trying to establish it over their customers. But Steve Jobs was doing it better than others. He was also quick to get of rid of it when it benefited his bottom line. For example, he removed DRM from music sold on iTunes. It seems that Amazon or Google are doing worse in this area and lack the authoritarian strength to challenge the status quo of self-serving copyright lawyers.

We do not need another Steve Jobs but we all should strive for the perfection like he did. The era of a power user is not over yet. I, for one, am not happy with the present state of e-readers. We really need more powerful devices even with the current state of tech. For example, where are 12" pdf readers with note marking capabilities?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by karunaji

The era of a power user is not over yet. I, for one, am not happy with the present state of e-readers. We really need more powerful devices even with the current state of tech. For example, where are 12" pdf readers with note marking capabilities?

I like the current crop of 6" ereaders, since I use them to read novels. PDFs, notes and such hold zero interest for me.

[stonetools]

We can say one thing. He was certainly the most quotable tech CEO. You can see a collection of his quotes HERE.

One they missed was his description of Sony Blue-Ray as a "bag of hurt".
He also described bringing Mac software to Microsoft as "bringing ice water to someone in hell".

Jobs made tech interesting, exciting, and controversial. Of that, there is no doubt. I miss him for that already.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by stonetools

He also described bringing Mac software to Microsoft as "bringing ice water to someone in hell".

I bet he wishes he had some of that ice water now

(sorry, couldn't resist)

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I bet he wishes he had some of that ice water now

(sorry, couldn't resist)

They need ice water in nirvana?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by stonetools

They need ice water in nirvana?

LOL

[5thWiggle]

@mldavis2:

A lot of Apple's company decsions that are attributed to Jobs were actually not his. Jobs was not CEO of Apple (despite co-founding it) until 1997. Jobs was part of the Lisa project until forced out in 1982. The Lisa had cooperative multitasking, protected memory, a HD based OS and expansion. He worked on the Macintosh development until ousted by CEO John Sculley in 1985.

....which is why Apple finally came up with a PC-clone OS, which is a bit hypocritical in view of Jobs attitude toward the smartphone patents.

The PC-clone OS is a decendent of NeXTSTEP and OpenSTEP, developed by NeXT computer - founded by Jobs after his ousting from Apple.

Any problems you have with Apple after 1997 you can firmly lay on Job's doorstep.


(believe it or not, I'm not a huge fan of Jobs. He was a visionary, and an industry shaker, but I save my real praise for the Wonderful Wizard of Woz)

[jtdolphins]

Originally Posted by mldavis2

Buy what you like and like what you buy.

Exactly! I never liked the close system of the app store. I wasn't happy when they brought it to the mac, till I switched my mom to a mac. It has made my tech support a lot easier. Besides the tech support, there are other benifits to the app store as I use it more.

Originally Posted by 5thWiggle

@mldavis2:
I save my real praise for the Wonderful Wizard of Woz)

The wizardly might of the Woz really comes through in the new book too. Really glad to see that, though I am only about 15% or so through the book. The impression I get is that he was a genius.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by 5thWiggle

@mldavis2:

A lot of Apple's company decsions that are attributed to Jobs were actually not his. Jobs was not CEO of Apple (despite co-founding it) until 1997. Jobs was part of the Lisa project until forced out in 1982. The Lisa had cooperative multitasking, protected memory, a HD based OS and expansion. He worked on the Macintosh development until ousted by CEO John Sculley in 1985.



The PC-clone OS is a decendent of NeXTSTEP and OpenSTEP, developed by NeXT computer - founded by Jobs after his ousting from Apple.

Any problems you have with Apple after 1997 you can firmly lay on Job's doorstep.


(believe it or not, I'm not a huge fan of Jobs. He was a visionary, and an industry shaker, but I save my real praise for the Wonderful Wizard of Woz)

Please get your facts right...Jobs was CEO until 1985, not 1982.

For a better timeline, see http://applemuseum.bott.org/sections/history.html

I played with my first pc (a Commodore Pet) in Dec. 1977. All the computer introductions along the time line are accurate. (although to call a machine 4 1/2 time faster, with over 10 times the memory address space as a "rather pitiful computer" is kind of stretching things....

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by HappyMartin

Not sure "accept" is the word but it would not advocate it. But then he said he was a Buddhist, don't think he claimed to be a Buddha.

He said he was Buddhist? Yea Gods. Apple shifted production to China where the staff we on suicide watch because of the working conditions. I don't know how much impact Jobs could have had on that decision, but I imagine it was way more than he exercised. I feel that his decisions in life were a great waste. He could have made a difference, he could have set an example, but he chose to make way more money than he could ever need and to cause suffering in the process. Odd.

[Rizla]

On another note, I can't quite see why Jobs felt Android stole Apple's ideas. It's a mobile O/S. So what?