EPUB 2: Endangered Format?

pssquirrel · 10-21-2011, 04:03 PM

After reading the news that Amazon is replacing their current format (AZW) with this new KF8, and B&N has stopped supporting PDBs and is now using EPUB exclusively, (not to mention LRF, LIT, and who knows how many other ebook formats that have bit the dust), I'm a little nervous about the upcoming EPUB 3.

I'd like to think EPUB 2 and 3 are close enough that any reader that reads EPUB 3 will also be able to read EPUB 2, but I just don't know enough about these ebook formats to be sure. Will people with large collections of EPUB 2 books have trouble reading them in the future?

Ozric · 10-21-2011, 04:16 PM

I'm not an expert, but I would think no one who makes their money from EPUB wants to anger their customers by rendering their current collections useless. It just doesn't seem like good business.

EowynCarter · 10-21-2011, 04:18 PM

That stongly depends on how the pubishers made thier books, how Adobe coded ADE (Would ADE ePub2 reader be lenient enough to ignore / fallback when bumping onto ePub3 stuf.).

eReaders reading ePub3, however, should have no problem reading ePub 2

Both hardware and sorftware wise.

HarryT · 10-21-2011, 04:20 PM

EPub 2 is fully "backward compatible" with ePub 3 - any ePub 3 reader will read ePub 2 just fine (not that there actually are any at present...).

Hamlet53 · 10-21-2011, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

That stongly depends on how the pubishers made thier books, how Adobe coded ADE (Would ADE ePub2 reader be lenient enough to ignore / fallback when bumping onto ePub3 stuf.).

eReaders reading ePub3, however, should have no problem reading ePub 2

Both hardware and sorftware wise.

It seems to me that the ADE question would only be a problem if one failed to to remove any DRM infection from ones books on purchase.

Since EPUB sans DRM is just a zip file with the content in the form of HTML I do not see present EPUB books being unreadable.

Clancy_s · 10-21-2011, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

It seems to me that the ADE question would only be a problem if one failed to to remove any DRM infection from ones books on purchase.

Since EPUB sans DRM is just a zip file with the content in the form of HTML I do not see present EPUB books being unreadable.

In any case, without the drm problem I'd expect it to be possible to reformat your epub2 books if necessary

.

JSWolf · 10-21-2011, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

EPub 2 is fully "backward compatible" with ePub 3 - any ePub 3 reader will read ePub 2 just fine (not that there actually are any at present...).

Avardi is the first one that I know of.

JSWolf · 10-21-2011, 05:18 PM

The real question is that when Adobe does ADE to be ePub 3 compatible, will device makers update their older devices with this new ADE? Because if they don't, then it means that ePub 3 won't be able to get off the ground considering how many devices there are that would not be able to handle ePub 3. So if the older devices are able to handle an ePub 3 compatible ADE, then they should be updated or ePub 3 will maybe die a still birth or just take that much longer to get off the ground.

Ozric · 10-21-2011, 05:55 PM

Yeah, I just bought a PRS-T1 and now I'm wondering if I should've waited until ePub 3 devices started coming out. I would hope that current devices would get updated, but I guess we have to wait and see.

K-Thom · 10-21-2011, 07:04 PM

Anyone's around who really has to ask why people tend to buy a Kindle?!

Buy an eBook from Amazon and read it on any Kindle device or any Kindle app (okay, we'll have to see if they goof with KF8) and don't think twice about version numbers or DRM schemes.

Sorry, I never bet any money on ePub in the first place, and I won't before any given ePub will be readable on ALL ePub devices around. Newer versions won't make it easier for ePub customers.

But I just had to rant, so don't mind.

The Terminator · 10-21-2011, 09:07 PM

Wha? K-Thom. As far as I know all Epub machines will read Adobe Epub's.

Until now I didn't even know there was any different Epub's.

Really your rant is worthless. Amazon limits you way more than Epub. Sony, Kobo, Nook and all the other major brands will work with the same books.

HarryT · 10-21-2011, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Terminator

Wha? K-Thom. As far as I know all Epub machines will read Adobe Epub's.

Until now I didn't even know there was any different Epub's.

Really your rant is worthless. Amazon limits you way more than Epub. Sony, Kobo, Nook and all the other major brands will work with the same books.

This is not so. Buy an ePub book from iBooks and a Nook won't read it; buy one from B&N and a Kobo won't read it. There are at present three different, mutually-incompatible ePub DRM mechanisms in use.

SmokeAndMirrors · 10-21-2011, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-Thom

Anyone's around who really has to ask why people tend to buy a Kindle?!

Buy an eBook from Amazon and read it on any Kindle device or any Kindle app (okay, we'll have to see if they goof with KF8) and don't think twice about version numbers or DRM schemes.

Sorry, I never bet any money on ePub in the first place, and I won't before any given ePub will be readable on ALL ePub devices around. Newer versions won't make it easier for ePub customers.

But I just had to rant, so don't mind.

The timing on your rant is really quite funny. Kindle just announced they're changing formats... again. And the new format probably won't be compatible on last-gen Kindles.

...Sorry, what was it you were saying about compatibility?

Epubs ARE readable on any device that reads Epub - which is all of them, except Kindle.

Epub3 is just Epub2 with extra stuff. The extra stuff won't show up on a reader that doesn't support Epub3, but the main content should work fine. Epub3 devices will also read Epub2. There is no compatibility issue. At least nothing a minor software update can't fix.

Which is better than can be said for the new KF8 Kindle format, from the looks of things.

Whether various DRM schemes are or will cause incompatibility is another issue, and completely unrelated to format - it's as true for the Kindle as it is for Epub devices. DRM is basically the business of causing compatibility issues where there shouldn't be compatibility issues.

Andrew H. · 10-21-2011, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

EPub 2 is fully "backward compatible" with ePub 3 - any ePub 3 reader will read ePub 2 just fine (not that there actually are any at present...).

Would an epub 2 reader be able to read epub 3 (without the enhanced features, of course)?

Andrew H. · 10-21-2011, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

Epub3 is just Epub2 with extra stuff. The extra stuff won't show up on a reader that doesn't support Epub3, but the main content should work fine. Epub3 devices will also read Epub2. There is no compatibility issue.

I assume this would work this way, but do you have a cite?

Quote:

Which is better than can be said for the new KF8 Kindle format, from the looks of things.

No. Kindle was very clear about this:

Quote:

Q: Will I have to provide two versions of my titles going forward?
A: No. The upcoming updates to our Kindle Publishing Tools will take care of this for you. KindleGen 2 will convert your content so that it works on all Kindle devices and apps.

Quote:

Whether various DRM schemes are or will cause incompatibility is another issue, and completely unrelated to format - it's as true for the Kindle as it is for Epub devices. DRM is basically the business of causing compatibility issues where there shouldn't be compatibility issues.

This is the basis for his rant, though, even if it is more properly a complaint about epub drm as opposed to epub-the-format.

10-21-2011, 04:03 PM	#1
pssquirrel ebooknut Posts: 297 Karma: 688154 Join Date: Oct 2011 Device: Kindle Voyage & Oasis	EPUB 2: Endangered Format? After reading the news that Amazon is replacing their current format (AZW) with this new KF8, and B&N has stopped supporting PDBs and is now using EPUB exclusively, (not to mention LRF, LIT, and who knows how many other ebook formats that have bit the dust), I'm a little nervous about the upcoming EPUB 3. I'd like to think EPUB 2 and 3 are close enough that any reader that reads EPUB 3 will also be able to read EPUB 2, but I just don't know enough about these ebook formats to be sure. Will people with large collections of EPUB 2 books have trouble reading them in the future?

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10-21-2011, 04:16 PM	#2
Ozric Zealot Posts: 146 Karma: 10671 Join Date: Nov 2007 Device: way too many =)	I'm not an expert, but I would think no one who makes their money from EPUB wants to anger their customers by rendering their current collections useless. It just doesn't seem like good business.

10-21-2011, 04:18 PM	#3
EowynCarter Wizard Posts: 4,338 Karma: 4000000 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Paris Device: Cybooks; Sony PRS-T1	That stongly depends on how the pubishers made thier books, how Adobe coded ADE (Would ADE ePub2 reader be lenient enough to ignore / fallback when bumping onto ePub3 stuf.). eReaders reading ePub3, however, should have no problem reading ePub 2 Both hardware and sorftware wise.

10-21-2011, 04:20 PM	#4
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,560 Karma: 93980341 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	EPub 2 is fully "backward compatible" with ePub 3 - any ePub 3 reader will read ePub 2 just fine (not that there actually are any at present...).

10-21-2011, 05:18 PM	#8
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 80,727 Karma: 150249619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	The real question is that when Adobe does ADE to be ePub 3 compatible, will device makers update their older devices with this new ADE? Because if they don't, then it means that ePub 3 won't be able to get off the ground considering how many devices there are that would not be able to handle ePub 3. So if the older devices are able to handle an ePub 3 compatible ADE, then they should be updated or ePub 3 will maybe die a still birth or just take that much longer to get off the ground.

10-21-2011, 05:55 PM	#9
Ozric Zealot Posts: 146 Karma: 10671 Join Date: Nov 2007 Device: way too many =)	Yeah, I just bought a PRS-T1 and now I'm wondering if I should've waited until ePub 3 devices started coming out. I would hope that current devices would get updated, but I guess we have to wait and see.

10-21-2011, 07:04 PM	#10
K-Thom The one and only Posts: 3,302 Karma: 535819 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Berlin, Germany Device: yup!	Anyone's around who really has to ask why people tend to buy a Kindle?! Buy an eBook from Amazon and read it on any Kindle device or any Kindle app (okay, we'll have to see if they goof with KF8) and don't think twice about version numbers or DRM schemes. Sorry, I never bet any money on ePub in the first place, and I won't before any given ePub will be readable on ALL ePub devices around. Newer versions won't make it easier for ePub customers. But I just had to rant, so don't mind.

10-21-2011, 09:07 PM	#11
The Terminator Retired Posts: 2,552 Karma: 37638420 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Vancouver Island Canada Device: Kobo Touch, Optimus One (2.3), Nexus 7 (4.2)	Wha? K-Thom. As far as I know all Epub machines will read Adobe Epub's. Until now I didn't even know there was any different Epub's. Really your rant is worthless. Amazon limits you way more than Epub. Sony, Kobo, Nook and all the other major brands will work with the same books.