Dragons? Yea or Nay? - Page 9

speakingtohe · 10-19-2011, 11:38 PM

Overall I prefer that animal characters not speak, Especially if they sound like undereducated two year olds when they do.
Or a condescending creature protecting his/her human.
Of course my mother's dog may disagree

Helen

VydorScope · 10-20-2011, 06:19 AM

What if the dragons natural food source is to eat the elves? Does that help?

ProfCrash · 10-20-2011, 07:39 AM

Sparkling Vampires would be a better food source

Nyssa · 10-20-2011, 08:08 AM

I don't get the aversion. Speak or don't speak....dragons are majestic animals/reptiles, usually with great power. I love all things magic, its why I read Fantasy/Supernatural novels in the first place, so I find dragons to be a fun addition to the fantasy realm.

As for elves, its all about the personalities. I don't actually see them as "creatures", just another race of "people", so you have your good, bad, interesting and boring, just like humans.

Vampires like elves are a "race", in my eyes. I read the Twilight series becuase of all of the gnashing of teeth. I had to know what set everyone off. I struggled through the first 2, they are really really sophomoric, but I really enjoyed the last two. The main character, Bella, stayed annoying but I felt that the story itself improved. The "sparkling" thing was forgotten along the way. It neither added to nor impeded the story for me. Yes, on the surface it sounds stupid, but in the long run it was a non issue, except for one very specific part in book 3 or 4.

DiapDealer · 10-20-2011, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyssa

I don't get the aversion. Speak or don't speak....dragons are majestic animals/reptiles, usually with great power. I love all things magic, its why I read Fantasy/Supernatural novels in the first place, so I find dragons to be a fun addition to the fantasy realm.

What's to get? I suppose it's like any other preference, really. It just is. But to at least attempt some kind of rational explanation: "Magic" happens to be towards the bottom of the list of reasons I read Fantasy. And "Fun" can be found just below that.

Nyssa · 10-20-2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

What's to get? I suppose it's like any other preference, really. It just is. But to at least attempt some kind of rational explanation: "Magic" happens to be towards the bottom of the list of reasons I read Fantasy. And "Fun" can be found just below that.

You don't read for fun?

DiapDealer · 10-20-2011, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyssa

You don't read for fun?

I read at least partially for enjoyment, if that's what you mean. But I wouldn't really describe the content of what I typically enjoy reading... "fun." I do tend to play games for fun, though.

Mainly, I read because I simply can't help myself. There is no "Not Reading."

wodin · 10-20-2011, 02:02 PM

I haven't read through all nine pages of this thread so I might be repeating, but "Inheritance” comes out next month.

Quexos · 10-20-2011, 02:50 PM

I like dragonflies ...
Does that count as well ?

frostschutz · 10-20-2011, 03:33 PM

It all depends on the story. Yay if it's a good story, nay otherwise.

If you have a good story that involves and elf queen with peculiar interest in dragons and the resulting dragonelves then, sure, why not - as long as it's a good story.

If you have a lousy story and throw in elves and dragons for good measure but without giving them a real purpose, or if you aren't able to make them convincing and non-boring, then nay.

As for cliche, what isn't? Genre is just another word for cliche, really. Fantasy stories give you knights, magic swords, princesses, kings, wizards, blacksmith apprentices, none of which are any less cliche than dragons, elves or dwarfes. At least you have so many types to choose from that there's bound to be some variety in it. Consider detective stories... it's always the same. Victim, murderer, bystanders, police, detective, assistant, that's pretty much it. Whether it's yay or nay depends on the story entirely...

DiapDealer · 10-20-2011, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostschutz

Fantasy stories give you knights, magic swords, princesses, kings, wizards, blacksmith apprentices, none of which are any less cliche than dragons, elves or dwarfes.

You definitely read different fantasy than I do.
The last fantasy I read was about a drug dealer trying to catch a killer of children in a post-industrial slum.

Nyssa · 10-20-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I read at least partially for enjoyment, if that's what you mean. But I wouldn't really describe the content of what I typically enjoy reading... "fun." I do tend to play games for fun, though.

Mainly, I read because I simply can't help myself. There is no "Not Reading."

Fun: Fun

Quote:

- 6 dictionary results
fun
/fʌn/ Show Spelled[fuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
something that provides mirth or amusement: A picnic would be fun.
2.
enjoyment or playfulness: She's full of fun.

I'm not sure why the nitpicking of words, but okay.

Anyway, I agree with Frostschutz's post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

You definitely read different fantasy than I do.
The last fantasy I read was about a drug dealer trying to catch a killer of children in a post-industrial slum.

It sounds like you read more urban fantasy (a sub-genre to which I'm relatively new) than traditional fantasy. I would agree that they are two very different genres sharing a very specific theme of the fantastical (make believe) element. I suppose it would be odd to have a talking dragon on a high-rise, but I'm guessing even that could work if done correctly.

JSWolf · 10-20-2011, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

Thank you! I'll check those out.

If you've not read the Discworld books published before Lords and Ladies, please do so in the order published. Otherwise, you will not enjoy Lords and Ladies like you should and you could very well end up spoiling other Discworld books. The way to read Discworld is in the order published. Reading it in any other order is just looking to spoil the series.

JSWolf · 10-20-2011, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATDrake

Everything's Better With Dragons!™

(WARNING: that link goes to TV Tropes.)

You got that so very very wrong. The correct quote is...

Instant Awesome Just Add Dragons

DiapDealer · 10-20-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyssa

It sounds like you read more urban fantasy (a sub-genre to which I'm relatively new) than traditional fantasy. I would agree that they are two very different genres sharing a very specific theme of the fantastical (make believe) element. I suppose it would be odd to have a talking dragon on a high-rise, but I'm guessing even that could work if done correctly.

Possibly. But I don't really consider it urban fantasy. No high-rises for sure.

The last one I read took place in a city, yes, but not contemporary at all. I've always considered what most people refer to as "urban fantasy" to be mostly contemporary settings with a focus on supernatural elements. That's not really my cup of tea. I assume what you're referring to as "traditional fantasy" is fantasy based primarily on medieval European-ish culture with magic, quests and an orphaned stable/kitchen boy/girl who has special powers/heritage that must be revealed to them by a wise old father/mother figure?

It's all good, if so. I just wore that particular trope out.

I consider that "High" or "Epic" fantasy. I'm more of a "Low" fantasy fan myself. Low on magic and heavy on grit. With an emphasis on stand-alones or very, very short series (2-3 books at most). Most urban and epic fantasy series seem to go on forever.

10-20-2011, 08:08 AM	#124
Nyssa Series Addict Posts: 6,180 Karma: 167189477 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Florida, USA Device: Kindle Paperwhite (2nd Gen)	I don't get the aversion. Speak or don't speak....dragons are majestic animals/reptiles, usually with great power. I love all things magic, its why I read Fantasy/Supernatural novels in the first place, so I find dragons to be a fun addition to the fantasy realm. As for elves, its all about the personalities. I don't actually see them as "creatures", just another race of "people", so you have your good, bad, interesting and boring, just like humans. Vampires like elves are a "race", in my eyes. I read the Twilight series becuase of all of the gnashing of teeth. I had to know what set everyone off. I struggled through the first 2, they are really really sophomoric, but I really enjoyed the last two. The main character, Bella, stayed annoying but I felt that the story itself improved. The "sparkling" thing was forgotten along the way. It neither added to nor impeded the story for me. Yes, on the surface it sounds stupid, but in the long run it was a non issue, except for one very specific part in book 3 or 4. Last edited by Nyssa; 10-20-2011 at 08:11 AM.

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10-19-2011, 11:38 PM	#121
speakingtohe Wizard Posts: 4,812 Karma: 26912940 Join Date: Apr 2010 Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet	Overall I prefer that animal characters not speak, Especially if they sound like undereducated two year olds when they do. Or a condescending creature protecting his/her human. Of course my mother's dog may disagree Helen

10-20-2011, 06:19 AM	#122
VydorScope Wizard Posts: 3,418 Karma: 35207650 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: iPad	What if the dragons natural food source is to eat the elves? Does that help?

10-20-2011, 07:39 AM	#123
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	Sparkling Vampires would be a better food source

10-20-2011, 02:02 PM	#128
wodin Illiterate Posts: 10,279 Karma: 37848716 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: The Sandwich Isles Device: Samsung Galaxy S10+, Microsoft Surface Pro	I haven't read through all nine pages of this thread so I might be repeating, but "Inheritance” comes out next month.

10-20-2011, 02:50 PM	#129
Quexos Member Retired Posts: 1,999 Karma: 11348924 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Limbo Device: none	I like dragonflies ... Does that count as well ?

10-20-2011, 03:33 PM	#130
frostschutz Linux User Posts: 2,282 Karma: 6123806 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Device: none	It all depends on the story. Yay if it's a good story, nay otherwise. If you have a good story that involves and elf queen with peculiar interest in dragons and the resulting dragonelves then, sure, why not - as long as it's a good story. If you have a lousy story and throw in elves and dragons for good measure but without giving them a real purpose, or if you aren't able to make them convincing and non-boring, then nay. As for cliche, what isn't? Genre is just another word for cliche, really. Fantasy stories give you knights, magic swords, princesses, kings, wizards, blacksmith apprentices, none of which are any less cliche than dragons, elves or dwarfes. At least you have so many types to choose from that there's bound to be some variety in it. Consider detective stories... it's always the same. Victim, murderer, bystanders, police, detective, assistant, that's pretty much it. Whether it's yay or nay depends on the story entirely...