New writer needs help on Fantasy novel (blacksmithing)

[Keryl Raist]

Originally Posted by michaelryannh

YouTube is very interesting for random how tos! although I can't say I would look up how to butcher a cow.. I currently work in a high sales meat department.. So I've seen plenty of butchered cows chickens pigs and even oxes

Hmmm....

The capable son of the local butcher finds a sword accidentally delivered among the new cleavers.

He picks it up and feels an instant connection: deep need to do something beyond portioning ribeyes.

A new epic fantasy based on what happens when he embraces his true destiny!

Or not.

But I'd be intrigued by that basic storyline.

[michaelryannh]

Originally Posted by Keryl Raist

Hmmm....

The capable son of the local butcher finds a sword accidentally delivered among the new cleavers.

He picks it up and feels an instant connection: deep need to do something beyond portioning ribeyes.

A new epic fantasy based on what happens when he embraces his true destiny!

Or not.

But I'd be intrigued by that basic storyline.

Not sure of this was humor.or.serious. But a quick novella could possibly be written off of that. Don't think I could actually write that into a full 120k novel

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by michaelryannh

Not sure of this was humor.or.serious. But a quick novella could possibly be written off of that. Don't think I could actually write that into a full 120k novel

I'm pretty sure it would be easy to make that a long novel. Just add lots and lots of filler. It worked for JK Rowling.

[michaelryannh]

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

I'm pretty sure it would be easy to make that a long novel. Just add lots and lots of filler. It worked for JK Rowling.

I must admit I chucked at this, even though as a kid I was a huge fan of J.K. Rowling.

How oblivious I was to the actual world of novelists and good books.

[ScalyFreak]

I realized I should clarify something. Despite what I just posted, I really did enjoy the first Harry Potter books and have re-read them several times. Rowling isn't actually a bad writer, unlike certain other popular ones *cough-stephanie-meyer-cough* she just got too carried away towards the end and no one seemed to have the spine to tell her to her face that she needed to do some serious editing. But the Harry Potter books are still very enjoyable, and I can think of a lot worse things for kids to read.

There are lots of ways for a book to be "good". I read trashy romance novels, I read books about Conan the Barbarian, I read Dostojvskij and Voltaire, I read Tolkien and Jane Austen, and I love and enjoy it all, but for very different reasons.

Sometimes greasy junk food really is what we want and need, sometimes it's caviar and expensive wine. And as long as we enjoy every moment of it, who cares about hollow things like "quality" or "prestige"? We're adults. That means now it's our time to decide what that means.

[Andanzas]

Originally Posted by michaelryannh

What do the fellow writers think of this?

If this is the beginning of a chapter, I would switch the order of the first two sentences:

Waylon had arrived long before sunrise this morning, as he always did, to ready the shop for its daily labor. The labor of a bladesmith was not an easy task, generally requiring the work of many specialists, but a simple blade as this could be done by one with dedication.

I think in fiction you are better off starting with concrete and clear facts rather than with general, abstract ideas.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by michaelryannh

He has been under his father's training from a young age (He is 22 now, Started around the age of 15-16.)

Ummm.... And what has he been up to before 15-16? Apprenticeships usually started between 12-14, and as a blacksmith's son, he was probably helping out informally since he was 7 or 8.


The Book of Swords by Hank Reinhardt will probably give you lots of good details about swords, by someone who's actually made swords.

The forging process was usually started with a "cake" of steel. This was a piece of steel about two pounds in weight and was usually obtained through trade. A swordmaker was lucky if he lived close enough to a good source of metal. But this usually wasn't the case.
The steel was heated to a cherry red and then pounded into a bar. This process was repeated several times, and eventually it was shaped into the sword blade.

It's a fascinating book, full of interesting info about swords and sword making.

[HarryT]

I have real issues with this:

Waylon had arrived long before sunrise this morning, as he always did, to ready the shop for its daily labor. The labor of a bladesmith was not an easy task, generally requiring the work of many specialists, but a simple blade as this could be done by one with dedication.

A blacksmith (or a swordsmith) usually worked alone, or at most with an apprentice or journeyman: there were not "many specialists" involved in his work.

Also the phrase "but a simple blade as this could be done by one with dedication." makes no sense. Perhaps you meant "but a blade as simple as this", or "but a simple blade such as this"?

[kacir]

One more thing ...
If the blacksmith wanted to make a sword really, really special - in magical sense of the word - he would use a bit of "fallen star" - meteorite iron as [a small] part of the material.

Sir Terry Pratchett (yes, that famous fantasy(*) author) has made himself a sword after he was knighted. Completely from scratch. He got help from a very knowledgeable friend and started by *personally* mining iron ore. He also obtained a little piece of iron meteorite and worked it onto steel, so his sword would acquire "magical properties".

You can look up his personal account.

Unfortunately, due to very weird British law about edged weapons he is not allowed to show us his DIY sword and he even has to deny the possession of such sword, otherwise he could be accused of breaking the law. Ain't that stupid? A person knighted by Queen isn't allowed to keep his ceremonial sword?


Now, this brings us to another question.
Is a mere non-noble-born villager allowed to own a sword in your world? I do not think so ;-)


(*) or whatever you wish to call his Discworld series.

michaelryannh, show us your reworked chapter after you change it using all the gathered info - just to make sure you have all details right ;-)
Some of us - yours truly included - have had to to exam[s] from metallurgy at university.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by kacir

Unfortunately, due to very weird British law about edged weapons he is not allowed to show us his DIY sword and he even has to deny the possession of such sword, otherwise he could be accused of breaking the law.

That's certainly not true. There's no law against owning swords. I have several!

[WillAdams]

HarryT wrote:

>A blacksmith (or a swordsmith) usually worked alone, or at most with an apprentice
>or journeyman: there were not "many specialists" involved in his work.

This varies by culture. In China, Japan and Korea there were a lot of specialists involved, one to make the guard, another the hilt, &c. and the scabbard was another consideration.

William

[kacir]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's certainly not true. There's no law against owning swords. I have several!

Well, I must have misunderstood those articles that were written about the awesome Sir Terry and his sword.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/te...-1225926584339

Pratchett has stored the sword, which he completed last year, in a secret location, apparently concerned about the authorities taking an interest in it.

He said: "It annoys me that knights aren’t allowed to carry their swords. That would be knife crime."

Here is picture of the sword
http://www.paulkidby.com/news/apr2010.html


http://www.paulkidby.com/news/dimbleby.html

I have also been able to write two more books, which my PA insists I tell you were bestsellers, had a stone bridge built over the stream in my garden, have been kissed by Joanna Lumley and after being, astonishingly, Knighted, subsequently made, with the help of knowledgeable friends, a sword – doing it the hard way, by first digging the iron ore out of the ground and smelting it in the garden. Of course, I shall never be able to take it out on the street, because such is the decay of our society that not even Knights can carry their swords in public. But who could ask for anything more? Except for, maybe, another kiss from Joanna Lumley.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...Heavenly-Sword

The finished product, seen at right, is clearly a beautiful work of art. However, the author has stored the weapon in a secret location for the time being, mainly because he's concerned that the authorities will have a problem with him possessing a sword. According to Sir Pratchett, "It annoys me that knights aren't allowed to carry their swords. That would be knife crime."

http://boingboing.net/2010/09/20/ter...hett-make.html


Note to michaelryannh:
Sir Terry needed to use 81 kilograms (170 pounds) of iron ore just to make one small and simple sword you see in pictures linked above. He also talks about hammering and hammering and more hammering needed to turn that smelted iron into steel, that he then took to a sword master to help him make it into a sword.

EDIT:
Here is the video of Sir Terry making a sword
http://blip.tv/al-focus/terry-pratch...speech-2606948

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by kacir

Well, I must have misunderstood those articles that were written about the awesome Sir Terry and his sword.

Yes, I think you have. The article you quote says that Sir Terry (very rightly) says that he can't carry his sword in public. That's absolutely true. Keeping it at home is fine.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, I think you have. The article you quote says that Sir Terry (very rightly) says that he can't carry his sword in public. That's absolutely true. Keeping it at home is fine.

Thank you for clearing that. I was getting concerned about stupid laws.

Today we see so many stupid things around the world, that it is not difficult to believe quite outrageous claims.

In Switzerland you can not own a folding knife that can be opened with just one hand (unless you are one-handed), so possession of a spring loaded knife of "butterfly knife" can get you in trouble. Yet, you can have ordinary bread knife (that doesn't even need to be unfolded one-handed or otherwise) and each single male adult in Switzerland that completed the compulsory army service has automatic rifle (with live ammunition!) stored at home.

In Germany possession of brass knuckles or nunchaku (simple farmer instrument from Japan - small flail for rice) can get you in big trouble.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by kacir

In Germany possession of brass knuckles or nunchaku (simple farmer instrument from Japan - small flail for rice) can get you in big trouble.

They do here as well, so people use bunches of keys and pool cues instead. Or sometimes a pool ball in a sock. All legal to carry, but you'll still get done if you're caught on camera using them. Steel toe-capped boots are another common one.