STUDY SHOWS: Ditching DRM could reduce piracy, prices

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Catlady

..

DRM is inhibiting my use of the product before the fact--before I do anything wrong. It's handcuffing me and preventing my legitimate use. Or it's trying to.

Which is exactly opposite of Peace, Love and the American way of innocent until proven guilty.

This is really the core of the issue, the presumption of guilt and the lack of respect and trust.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by Harmon

I don't think that they are trying to prevent theft.

I think that the first objective is to create an ecology of ebook reading which is similar to buying a ticket to the movies. That is, they want to make a sale for each separate person who reads an ebook. In that context, what they are doing is taking advantage of DRM and, to some extent, proprietary file formats, to make it difficult for more than one person to read an ebook based on only one purchase. Not impossible - just difficult.

A second objective is to lock readers into buying from a single ebook source, each reseller hoping that the source will be itself.

All this stuff about DRM preventing theft is a smokescreen. What is being prevented is "more than one person reading per purchase" and "buying an ebook from my competitors."

I like the movie analogy, but I think they are using software licenses as a model as well. We've all accepted the idea that when we buy software we are really buying licenses to use the software on a specified number of computers.

The trouble is, we have a long history of using books very differently--we're used to sharing them and donating them and reselling them, and "they" tell us we can't do that, and pretend it's some great gift when they enable lending for a specified period--wow!

[stonetools]

You would have every right to pursue legal action against anyone uploading a copy of
your property, and bringing the theft to the attention of law enforcement. The use of
totally ineffective preemptive measures that restrict the use of your product, after the
sale, must be for another, hidden purpose.

Actually DRM is effective to deterring casual sharing by the nontech consumer. What theauthor and publisher is rightly afraid of is some teenager buying a copy of the latest vampire bestseller and forwarding it to her peeps on Facebook, who will then forward it to THEIR peeps on Facebook, etc. Mike Shatzkin puts it best:

Because casual sharing of unprotected files would have none of the
limitations that your mother and her friends find true with printed books.
Each book could be read by as many people at one time as wanted to, not just
one person at a time. The books would never wear out. The friends could send
the same file to other friends outside the circle of regular sharers.

Anyone who doesnt think large scale casual sharing does not pose a serious threat to the revenues of authors and publishers is either indifferent to the rights of authors and publishers hasn't really thought the problem through.
The other legal remedies that you mention are far less effective than DRM for protecting sales and would cause even greater resentment among consumers. Again, this is well known . You might as well be just advising authors and publishers to give up on the idea of protecting their IP rights-which again, some explicitly say they should do. Not surprisingly, authors haven't opted for unconditional surrender .

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Actualll;y DRM is effective to deterring casual sharing by thee nontech consumer. What theauthor and publisher is rightly afraid of is some teenager buying a copy of the latest vampire bestseller and forwarding it to her peeps on Facebook, who will then forward it to THEIR peeps on Facebook, etc. Mike Shatzkin puts it best:


...

Piffle. Give us actual figures on the loss as well as the additional sales due to the publicity.

Might-bees and what if's are worthless, particularly when the music and video industries have shown otherwise and removed the worthless DRM.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Catlady

I like the movie analogy, but I think they are using software licenses as a model as well. We've all accepted the idea that when we buy software we are really buying licenses to use the software on a specified number of computers.

The trouble is, we have a long history of using books very differently--we're used to sharing them and donating them and reselling them, and "they" tell us we can't do that, and pretend it's some great gift when they enable lending for a specified period--wow!

The point of course is that ebooks ARE software. What's quite certain is that they are not physical objects that can be "donated" or "resold". When you "share' an ebook, what you actually do is send a copy of the file to someone else-the original file stays with you. Indeed, you can "share" a book an unlimited number of times, and with total strangers, at no cost to you, while keeping the original -an impossibility with an actual book.

What needs to be done, ,I think, is:

1. The publishers and booksellers need to be much more upfront in telling end users that ebooks are software and are sold and licensed as much.

2. THere should be legislation setting out exactly what ebooks and other digital media are , and what are the rights of both content creator and consumer. The current situation just leads to frustration and confusion on the part of creator and conmsumer, who both feel that their rights are being slighted. There is no question in my mind that the current law is inadequate to the situation.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by stonetools

....There is no question in my mind that the current law is inadequate to the situation.

Not if it's followed and enforced. It provides specific and detailed uses and abuses of copyrighted materials.

The only thing wrong with copyright law to my thinking is the length and the ability of corporations to hold copyright.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Piffle. Give us actual figures on the loss as well as the additional sales due to the publicity.

Might-bees and what if's are worthless, particularly when the music and video industries have shown otherwise and removed the worthless DRM.

Actually,there is just as much a shortage of data on your side as well.What are your figures showing that offering books DRM free would not cause massive losses to publishers and major authors?

THe music industry? Well, its surviving after a fashion: but its revenues have collapsed since the intoduction of Napster and large scale casual sharing .
The video industry? They still DRM their products.

Might-bes and ifs are worthless, particularly where you are gambling with the livelihoods of authors, their families and the many employees of the pubklishing industry who work for and support those authors.

[stonetools]

Not if it's followed and enforced. It provides specific and detailed uses and abuses of copyrighted materials.

The copyright laws, as they exist now are difficult, if not impossible to enforce for after-the fact copyright violations . I think most people understand this. People with servers outside the USA violate US copyright laws every day with impunity .
Whats more,when copyright holders do try to enforce the law, they tend to be assailed by the very people who are opponents of DRM.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by stonetools

The copyright laws, as they exist now are difficult, if not impossible to enforce for after-the fact copyright violations . I think most people understand this. People with servers outside the USA violate US copyright laws every day with impunity .
Whats more,when copyright holders do try to enforce the law, they tend to be assailed by the very people who are opponents of DRM.

That's not my problem. The music and video industry have gotten beyond it, the book industry must do the same.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Actually,there is just as much a shortage of data on your side as well.What are your figures showing that offering books DRM free would not cause massive losses to publishers and major authors?

THe music industry? Well, its surviving after a fashion: but its revenues have collapsed since the intoduction of Napster and large scale casual sharing .
The video industry? They still DRM their products.

Might-bes and ifs are worthless, particularly where you are gambling with the livelihoods of authors, their families and the many employees of the pubklishing industry who work for and support those authors.

Your argument has NOTHING to do with authors and EVERYTHING to do with the dinosaurs of the publishing business. They will change or they will end up just like the dinosaurs. Tell them.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by kennyc

That's not my problem. The music and video industry have gotten beyond it, the book industry must do the same.

THe music industry has gotten beyond it by shrinking to less than half its former size. Is that your solution for the book industry? ( The movie industry still DRMS its products).

" Not my problem" eh? Your empathy is touching. "I've got mine, f**k you" isn't a very convincing argument .

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Piffle. Give us actual figures on the loss as well as the additional sales due to the publicity.

Might-bees and what if's are worthless, particularly when the music and video industries have shown otherwise and removed the worthless DRM.

I'm still waiting for the data to back up stonetools's claim that more people strip DRM to distribute books than for their personal convenience. Not to mention the list of "many products" that have built-in restrictions post-purchase.

Piffle is right.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by stonetools

The point of course is that ebooks ARE software. What's quite certain is that they are not physical objects that can be "donated" or "resold". When you "share' an ebook, what you actually do is send a copy of the file to someone else-the original file stays with you. Indeed, you can "share" a book an unlimited number of times, and with total strangers, at no cost to you, while keeping the original -an impossibility with an actual book.

No, they are not software. They are books. Software does something. Books are passive, whether they are paper books or digital books.

What needs to be done, ,I think, is:

1. The publishers and booksellers need to be much more upfront in telling end users that ebooks are software and are sold and licensed as much.

Right, like this is gonna happen. "Book buyer, you may buy this digital file to use according to the rules we made up that deny you any fair use of this material, and lock you in to one bookstore and device. Or you can buy this paper copy to do with as you like, to own forever and lend and resell. Oh, and we're going to charge you more for the restricted digital copy, because we can."

2. THere should be legislation setting out exactly what ebooks and other digital media are , and what are the rights of both content creator and consumer. The current situation just leads to frustration and confusion on the part of creator and conmsumer, who both feel that their rights are being slighted. There is no question in my mind that the current law is inadequate to the situation.

DRM is not a matter of law. Copyright is copyright is copyright, no matter if the book is paper or digital. New laws aren't needed (except in the matter of making the term of copyright a lot more sensible); what's needed is some common sense.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by stonetools

The copyright laws, as they exist now are difficult, if not impossible to enforce for after-the fact copyright violations . I think most people understand this. People with servers outside the USA violate US copyright laws every day with impunity .
Whats more,when copyright holders do try to enforce the law, they tend to be assailed by the very people who are opponents of DRM.

Which means that no additional U.S. law is going to touch them either, so this does nothing to support your call for more laws.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by kennyc

I'm wondering, does Amazon get a cut from the used book sales done through its website? I presume it does.

Of course. The Best of Free Enterprise
Sell some of those old books or eReaders

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