Digital Underclass 2: The future of books and libraries

[kennyc]

I think we need an community electronic device bank (like a food bank) for the (electronicly) needy!

Originally Posted by mldavis2

Some of the answer lies in how quickly the libraries are willing and financially able to adjust to changing markets. I live in a smallish town of around 10,000 and the library is a growing, changing service. They supply a dozen computers for internet access for those who are unable to afford a computer, they loan (rent) e-Readers, they host children's reading groups, they display exhibits ranging from civil war artifacts to author signings, they host book discussion groups. Some of this may go the way of the dinosaur, but in a community where many have no jobs and/or cannot afford to buy a $100 eReader or pay a $30/month online connection fee or purchase a $1000 computer or $500 tablet every few years, it is an oasis.

I had to check to see that you were not writing about my community, but I see that you are in Missouri, not Wisconsin. Everything you said applies to my local library. Well except for the lending out e-book reader devices, but even that will likely change before the end of the year. Our local Friends of the Library organization I am active in is looking into purchasing a few devices for donation to the library. Right know we are leaning toward a few of the most inexpensive Kindle readers and maybe a couple of Fires.

I still believe that the traditional books stacks will not be going away anytime soon. I always prefer to read an ebook instead of paper, but still find that that my reading is about 40% ebook and 60% paper. There are just too many books that are not available as ebooks, and unless the trend to forever copyright is reversed these may never be.

I do have one problem with the recent addition of Kindle format ebooks to the ebook lending program for my library system (done through Overdrive). Even though I have a Sony device and always check out epub books, I decided to try out checking out a Kindle format book to see how it works. One must actually download from Amazon and have an account with Amazon versus with the epub books just needing a library card. I am actually trying to convince the other Friends of Library governing body to go with either Sony or Nook devices instead of Kindles for this.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

... I am actually trying to convince the other Friends of Library governing body to go with either Sony or Nook devices instead of Kindles for this.

As I said in another thread. I'm glad to see this because it expands the reach of ebooks and moves us ever closer to that future. I'm sad that it will extend the fractured and incompatible market of both mobi/Kindle and epub instead of coming to a common format.

[emellaich]

So, I know that this isn't popular, and I've posted similar thoughts before and met with resounding silence, but here goes (Most of these thoughts are specific to the U.S. situation).

I'm not sure that libraries in there current form should continue to exist. What is their purpose? Some questions that occur:
- Should we take money from taxpayers so that people who can buy books of their own get the books for free?
- Should we take money from authors by looking to buy a single book and making it available to the public?
- Why is there a duplicate library system between schools and the public library?

My thoughts on where libraries are or can be important:
1) Providing access across the digital divide. Not only is this humanitarian, but it makes cold, hard economic sense. For those who are economically disadvantaged who choose to use library (and internet) services we probably see more payback than cost. Those who educate themselves may well increase their future earning, thus increasing their tax payments and decreasing their public assistance costs. However, there doesn't seem to be a reason to lend DVDs to these folks.
2) Providing support for the educational system.
3) Providing access to government resources: Data, meeting minutes, rules, regulations.
4) Providing archival support for Orphaned works. It doesn't necessarily make economic sense to provide 'free' bestsellers to those who can make their own decision to buy them. However, after books have been on the market for five years, they are probably a bargain to acquire, they are probably earning little revenue for their creators, and, if they aren't being republished, they are in danger of being lost.

What other purposes can you think of for public libraries?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by kennyc

As I said in another thread. I'm glad to see this because it expands the reach of ebooks and moves us ever closer to that future. I'm sad that it will extend the fractured and incompatible market of both mobi/Kindle and epub instead of coming to a common format.

Maybe Amazon's move into the libraries will hasten the demise of epub in favor of azw?

Originally Posted by kennyc

As I said in another thread. I'm glad to see this because it expands the reach of ebooks and moves us ever closer to that future. I'm sad that it will extend the fractured and incompatible market of both mobi/Kindle and epub instead of coming to a common format.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to have an industry standard format. My first preference would be epub because as far as I know Amazon devices are the only that do not support this. But if the standard becomes mobi with all devices supporting that I would also be happy. My objection to the library lending for Kindle as currently set up it with having to go through the Amazon web site and having to have an account with Amazon, versus just being able to use a library card as with the epub and pdf content. That and as I say I went through the Kindle content lending process as I said, and it is apparent that Amazon is not interested in lending, it is after a sale.

Originally Posted by emellaich

So, I know that this isn't popular, and I've posted similar thoughts before and met with resounding silence, but here goes (Most of these thoughts are specific to the U.S. situation).

I'm not sure that libraries in there current form should continue to exist. What is their purpose? Some questions that occur:
- Should we take money from taxpayers so that people who can buy books of their own get the books for free?
- Should we take money from authors by looking to buy a single book and making it available to the public?
- Why is there a duplicate library system between schools and the public library?

My thoughts on where libraries are or can be important:
1) Providing access across the digital divide. Not only is this humanitarian, but it makes cold, hard economic sense. For those who are economically disadvantaged who choose to use library (and internet) services we probably see more payback than cost. Those who educate themselves may well increase their future earning, thus increasing their tax payments and decreasing their public assistance costs. However, there doesn't seem to be a reason to lend DVDs to these folks.
2) Providing support for the educational system.
3) Providing access to government resources: Data, meeting minutes, rules, regulations.
4) Providing archival support for Orphaned works. It doesn't necessarily make economic sense to provide 'free' bestsellers to those who can make their own decision to buy them. However, after books have been on the market for five years, they are probably a bargain to acquire, they are probably earning little revenue for their creators, and, if they aren't being republished, they are in danger of being lost.

What other purposes can you think of for public libraries?

Yes that is the libertarian point of view. The government should not be in the business of providing any services. Access for any individual, any family, should be based on the how willing or able to pay personally. I totally disagree with this philosophy, but I do believe that this has been debated roundly in another thread not so long ago.

As for the other purposes for a library, see my previous post to this thread.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Maybe Amazon's move into the libraries will hasten the demise of epub in favor of azw?

It could happen....I don't see it as likely though with the rest of the industry lined up behind epub.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

Don't get me wrong. I would love to have an industry standard format. My first preference would be epub because as far as I know Amazon devices are the only that do not support this. But if the standard becomes mobi with all devices supporting that I would also be happy. My objection to the library lending for Kindle as currently set up it with having to go through the Amazon web site and having to have an account with Amazon, versus just being able to use a library card as with the epub and pdf content. That and as I say I went through the Kindle content lending process as I said, and it is apparent that Amazon is not interested in lending, it is after a sale.

....

Absolutely, and even moreso when you see the emails they send you when the loan is up -- You can buy this book right now at: LINK...

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

My objection to the library lending for Kindle as currently set up it with having to go through the Amazon web site and having to have an account with Amazon, versus just being able to use a library card as with the epub and pdf content.

That's the part I like best, because it doesn't require a USB cable. Downloading Kindle library books is easier and quicker than downloading EPUB ones.

[ScalyFreak]

This thread reminded me that I haven't actually take the time to locate the library in the town I've lived in for a couple of years now. Before moving here I lived in a city that had one big library in one corner. I lived in the opposite corner, so I completely lost the habit of visiting the library and borrowing books.

But now I've found it! I'm currently browsing their website to find out how to get a card, and came across this notice:

Originally Posted by Local library"

The Netlibrary service has been sold to a new vendor, and as of last week, is no longer functional in its previous form. We have contracted with Overdrive to begin offering both eBooks and eAudiobooks, but that service will not be available until October. We apologize for any inconvenience and thank you for your patience during this transition.

It is October now. Where is the Overdrive service? At least it's coming though, that makes me happy

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

This thread reminded me that I haven't actually take the time to locate the library in the town I've lived in for a couple of years now. Before moving here I lived in a city that had one big library in one corner. I lived in the opposite corner, so I completely lost the habit of visiting the library and borrowing books.

But now I've found it! I'm currently browsing their website to find out how to get a card, and came across this notice:



It is October now. Where is the Overdrive service? At least it's coming though, that makes me happy

Excellent!

[xg4bx]

Originally Posted by emellaich

So, I know that this isn't popular, and I've posted similar thoughts before and met with resounding silence, but here goes (Most of these thoughts are specific to the U.S. situation).

I'm not sure that libraries in there current form should continue to exist. What is their purpose? Some questions that occur:
- Should we take money from taxpayers so that people who can buy books of their own get the books for free?
- Should we take money from authors by looking to buy a single book and making it available to the public?
- Why is there a duplicate library system between schools and the public library?

My thoughts on where libraries are or can be important:
1) Providing access across the digital divide. Not only is this humanitarian, but it makes cold, hard economic sense. For those who are economically disadvantaged who choose to use library (and internet) services we probably see more payback than cost. Those who educate themselves may well increase their future earning, thus increasing their tax payments and decreasing their public assistance costs. However, there doesn't seem to be a reason to lend DVDs to these folks.
2) Providing support for the educational system.
3) Providing access to government resources: Data, meeting minutes, rules, regulations.
4) Providing archival support for Orphaned works. It doesn't necessarily make economic sense to provide 'free' bestsellers to those who can make their own decision to buy them. However, after books have been on the market for five years, they are probably a bargain to acquire, they are probably earning little revenue for their creators, and, if they aren't being republished, they are in danger of being lost.

What other purposes can you think of for public libraries?

i agree. i just saw a stat that 68% of those in prison are illiterate. and literacy being tied to gainful employment is pretty much a fact.

i'm pretty much a slash and burn everything guy when it comes to government programs but at the very least we should provide the tools for literacy.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by xg4bx

...

i'm pretty much a slash and burn everything guy when it comes to government programs but at the very least we should provide the tools for literacy.

My bolding, resizing and coloring!!!

[frahse]

Originally Posted by kennyc

I don't think libraries are dying, but I do think they must transform themselves just as the book industry must. They must embrace the internet and digital technologies and provide both in-person and on-line access to information. Libraries can actually play a very important part in this transformation of society just as they have in the past. They provide a central storage and access space for information that the "(digital) underclass" would not be able to access without the public library. This has always been the function of libraries and it will continue provided they are willing to embrace the technology and provide it to the public.

Right on, Mr Ken.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by mldavis2

Some of the answer lies in how quickly the libraries are willing and financially able to adjust to changing markets. I live in a smallish town of around 10,000 and the library is a growing, changing service. They supply a dozen computers for internet access for those who are unable to afford a computer, they loan (rent) e-Readers, they host children's reading groups, they display exhibits ranging from civil war artifacts to author signings, they host book discussion groups. Some of this may go the way of the dinosaur, but in a community where many have no jobs and/or cannot afford to buy a $100 eReader or pay a $30/month online connection fee or purchase a $1000 computer or $500 tablet every few years, it is an oasis.

"it is an oasis."

Well said.
"hear, hear."