How does Barnes and Noble respond?

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by boswd

Yeah I agree, that's why I think they are going to need to open up the Android Market and get NetFlix and Hulu on board which will also bring the Amazon Mp3 store.

because if they do then

Android Market trumps the Amazon Market
Netflix trumps Prime
Hulu and Amazon Instant rentals will be a wash
Amazon Mp3 will be a wash.

How does that actually make them any money?
The point of the Nook/Nook Color is to supply devices that people will use to buy books from B&N. B&N aren't a tablet manufacturer, why would they want to design a device people could install the Kindle app on?

[stonetools]

1. Special Offers. The Nook will have to offer some of these to get the price down; a lot of shoppers are very price sensitive when it comes to e-readers. Which is why the K3 KSO wifi ($114) is the current Kindle bestseller. Added to this is the fact that, I assume, the Special Offers are bringing more to Amazon than they expected - while the original SO's only gave a $25 discount, on the new line there are discounts of up to $50 - and even the cheapest Kindle has a $30 discount for special offers.

However, the KSO has been out for a while, and B&N has had the chance to see how it works...so I would be surprised if they *haven't* been working on something similar. Although they may have done so under the assumption that an appropriate discount would be $25 and not more. Still, they need to add something like this, and in time for Christmas - when grandma sees that she can buy junior a Kindle for $79 or a Nook for $139, she will probably go for the Kindle. (And you know that "Kindle, starting at $79..." is going to be heavily advertised.)

What B&N could do: partner with a third party. How about this:

" B&N announces an historic partnership with Groupon to bring you the NTGO (Nook Touch Groupon Offers) and the NCGO (Nook Color Groupon Offers). Groupon offers will show up on your screensavers and you will get the same great deals every day that you once had to go the the Groupon website to get. In addition, the NTGO will be offered for the low, low price of $99 and the NCGO will be offered for $199."

Game on at that point, especially if Netflix comes to the B&N App Store.

I think that the bottom-line Kindle will not do well, simply because even if people are attracted to the price, the clumsy interface is just going to be too big of a turn-off. People will not sacrifice that much convenience for cheap.

[stonetools]

3. 3G. One of the things that is missing from the Fire is 3G. A NC2 with 3G for $250 would be very competitive if you could buy a monthly no-contract data plan for $15 or so for 250 MB. (or more...).

You would most likely be talking adding at least $50 more to the price if you are adding a 3G radio. Those things aren't free, you know.
Carriers of course resist such deals. They like lock-in contracts. Apple was able to get AT&T to go along, but I haven't seen a proliferation of such offers. Amazon hasn't as yet gotten any carrier to go along with something like this, which is why no Kindle Fire 3G was offered. I don't think B&N is in any better position to muscle the carriers.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

How does that actually make them any money?
The point of the Nook/Nook Color is to supply devices that people will use to buy books from B&N. B&N aren't a tablet manufacturer, why would they want to design a device people could install the Kindle app on?

at this point they are going to have to think about bringing more entertainment content in otherwise there won't be any money at all to worry about making. They can't just release a beefed up spec'd but still offer the same content. It just won't compete Unless it's will to bring it to like $150 or lower. and I don't see that happening.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by faithbw

I don't think it's about hating B&N as much as stating the fact that B&N is in serious trouble right now. The nook is helping to keep them afloat but with the new Kindles advertised, you have to wonder how long that is going to last. I say this as someone who wants B&N to stay in business as well as the makers of other e-readers. The last thing we need is a monoply but with the pricing of the Kindle, Amazon is making it that much harder for other players to stay in the business.

you haven't seen Joe C in action on the Nook subforums have you? Trust me he has some sort of vendetta with that company.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

B&N will have their work cut out for them dealing with Amazon's new offerings, but I don't think that things are hopeless for B&N. And they may not have been as surprised by some of what Amazon brought as we (or I) was.

1. Special Offers. The Nook will have to offer some of these to get the price down; a lot of shoppers are very price sensitive when it comes to e-readers. Which is why the K3 KSO wifi ($114) is the current Kindle bestseller. Added to this is the fact that, I assume, the Special Offers are bringing more to Amazon than they expected - while the original SO's only gave a $25 discount, on the new line there are discounts of up to $50 - and even the cheapest Kindle has a $30 discount for special offers.

However, the KSO has been out for a while, and B&N has had the chance to see how it works...so I would be surprised if they *haven't* been working on something similar. Although they may have done so under the assumption that an appropriate discount would be $25 and not more. Still, they need to add something like this, and in time for Christmas - when grandma sees that she can buy junior a Kindle for $79 or a Nook for $139, she will probably go for the Kindle. (And you know that "Kindle, starting at $79..." is going to be heavily advertised.)

2. Nook Color 2. B&N has been working on this for some time; I would assume that it will have similar specs to the Kindle. But they need to have a matching price, or a clear reason why the NC 2 is worth $50 more.

No one was surprised that the Fire came with an easy way to watch Amazon's videos; everyone knew this would be the case, and no one more than B&N. So what they need to do - and presumably have been working on for a year - is offer Netflix, Hulu, and any other similar service on the 2. Netflix and Hulu compete directly with Amazon, so I think that they would also be interested.

Silk is pretty cool, and I'll be interested to see how it works in person, - but I don't think it's really going to be much of a selling point for average consumers. And over wifi, the normal browser works well enough.

3. 3G. One of the things that is missing from the Fire is 3G. A NC2 with 3G for $250 would be very competitive if you could buy a monthly no-contract data plan for $15 or so for 250 MB. (or more...).

4. International. The Nook needs to be available internationally, particularly in markets where Epub is standard, Kindle isn't that established yet, and people are happy enough to side-load books.

I agree with the speciall offers, they will have to counter that, the semi subsidized ereader. That is the price that is sticking in everyone's mind even if you end up buying the non special offer version for $40 more. It's that $99 mark that get's your interest.

Otherwise I see nothing on the Kindle touch that is revolutionary or evolutinary and still lacks some of the advantage held by the NookSTR, ePub, sd card and physical store support and inStore Features. but the kindle has that $99 mark even if it is the Ad supported version.

[SensualPoet]

B&N Nook doesn't have the breadth of options and synergies Amazon has. Adding Netflix adds no revenue, or, at best, a reseller commission; adding Amazon Prime to the Kindle adds $80/yr. Plus, lets remind ourselves: neither B&N nor Amazon are selling an Android tablet -- each is selling its own closed system. It just happens that Amazon's closed system has a huge amount of stuff in it.

Groupon and B&N make no economic sense at all. But maybe the Liberty Media investment might open doors to discounts on QVC driven through a Nook. Dunno. Presumably something like that was discussed when it looked like Liberty Media would actually buy B&N. But, it didn't.

B&N Nook ereader has a significant business in the US and ought to focus on that, extending to Nook Color platform where it makes sense. Ultimately, it is the content which makes money for B&N, not devices. If it builds out its platform, it can sell more stuff on its own devices and the main Android platforms rather than having to worry what the Nook Color 2, Color 3 and Color 4 might bring to the table.

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by stonetools

What B&N could do: partner with a third party. How about this:

" B&N announces an historic partnership with Groupon to bring you the NTGO (Nook Touch Groupon Offers) and the NCGO (Nook Color Groupon Offers). Groupon offers will show up on your screensavers and you will get the same great deals every day that you once had to go the the Groupon website to get. In addition, the NTGO will be offered for the low, low price of $99 and the NCGO will be offered for $199."

Game on at that point, especially if Netflix comes to the B&N App Store.

I think that the bottom-line Kindle will not do well, simply because even if people are attracted to the price, the clumsy interface is just going to be too big of a turn-off. People will not sacrifice that much convenience for cheap.

SO Kindles get special local offers that are very similar to what you get from Living Social and Groupon.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

B&N Nook doesn't have the breadth of options and synergies Amazon has. Adding Netflix adds no revenue, or, at best, a reseller commission; adding Amazon Prime to the Kindle adds $80/yr. Plus, lets remind ourselves: neither B&N nor Amazon are selling an Android tablet -- each is selling its own closed system. It just happens that Amazon's closed system has a huge amount of stuff in it.

Groupon and B&N make no economic sense at all. But maybe the Liberty Media investment might open doors to discounts on QVC driven through a Nook. Dunno. Presumably something like that was discussed when it looked like Liberty Media would actually buy B&N. But, it didn't.

B&N Nook ereader has a significant business in the US and ought to focus on that, extending to Nook Color platform where it makes sense. Ultimately, it is the content which makes money for B&N, not devices. If it builds out its platform, it can sell more stuff on its own devices and the main Android platforms rather than having to worry what the Nook Color 2, Color 3 and Color 4 might bring to the table.

Well, you make some good points. B&N could partner with various companies to offer its own deals. It could also offer its own streaming video service, I guess . Or it could arrange to be bought by another company. I guess its still working on that.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by boswd

you haven't seen Joe C in action on the Nook subforums have you? Trust me he has some sort of vendetta with that company.

You need to stop making ridiculous assumptions about things that only exist on your mind! You had problems before because that, and looks like you have not learned your lesson.

People come here to discuss and exchange ideas and opinions about different companies. If you cannot de-attach your love for B&N vs personal attacks or insisting X or Y person has a vendetta, better for you to stop posting at all.

You don't own B&N sub-forum. If someone wants to post something there, is not because a personal vendetta. Moreover, as long as people adhere to Mobileread standards, me or anyone can post anywhere, including you.

Moderators: what's going on here!

[Brinoles]

B&N has to step it up and unlock the Nook to the Android Market. Who knows at that price people might just switch to The Fire

[Connallmac]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Naughy, naughty!
It's not that bad. Not yet.

Main thing is B&N has to avoid trying to answer everything Amazon does; they can't and trying *will* break them.
Their business is books. Amazon's business is everything.

B&N needs to focus on books and on breaking the *other* epub players. B&N doesn't need to be top ebook vendor to survive---they just need to be the top epub reader vendor. Big difference.

"I don't need to be faster than the bear, I just need to be faster than you."

This is one of the smarter pieces of analysis that I have seen on this site. I tip my cap to you!

[allinhi/]

Originally Posted by jocampo

I think I don't understand your comment.

I don't hate any company. What I'm showing is a fact. You can check yourself.

Stock prices espcially for a single year tell little about company performance. Amazons income from its other retail areas is huge. Amazon is multinational. These factors make your stock price model a guide for judging these firms suspect.

[allinhi/]

I think the one advantage BN has is its stores. Especially around holidays pushing nk for various family members, coupon bookmarks discounting nooks maybe. Borders demise may help them short term as well. I think if blue tooth was added, teens would be very interested in lending books, video, games, on a bigger than smartphone, cheaper than ipad device.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by allinhi/

Stock prices espcially for a single year tell little about company performance. Amazons income from its other retail areas is huge. Amazon is multinational. These factors make your stock price model a guide for judging these firms suspect.

I disagree with that comment.

A bad CEO o poor management directly reflects on a one year stock price. Go back and take a look on HP's, for example. You will see the impact of Mark's resignation plus the controversial decisions of the previous one. A few months maybe not, but a full year gives a good picture. Actually, is a good gauge for some companies to figure it out what to do on next quarter, what product stop producing or what not.

Apple's 1 year stock is awesome, and a direct result of good sales number on iPad and other products.

And you are right. Amazon stock shows everything there but that's what Amazon is, an online retailer. When comparing stock and company performance, there is no way to separate that.

B&N, on the other hand, is not a retailer. In fact, because B&N is smaller and basically just a bookstore, any benefit of ereader and ebook sales, if one, should be rapidly shown on a 1 year chart, at least that's my opinion.