UK ebook VAT petition

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Children's books could be zero-rated for VAT, just as childen's clothes are. But I have no problem with VAT being charged for books aimed at an adult audience. Is there any good reason that they should be zero-rated? I struggle to think of one.

If they're for educational purposes, then yes, since many college students tend to be on the broke side of things. I know I have to spend about $300 on books every few months, and my college expenses alone are more a year than I make (and I have a relatively good, high paying job, considering I am a student).

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Children's books could be zero-rated for VAT, just as childen's clothes are. But I have no problem with VAT being charged for books aimed at an adult audience. Is there any good reason that they should be zero-rated? I struggle to think of one.

As a fairly obviously at least comfortably well off person, I can quite see your attitude but I feel that it is an unjust arrangement where, simply because something ceases to have a physical entity, means that it should be taxed and become more expensive and thus restricted to a wealthier part of society than before...

[Daveoc64]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Not when it comes to eBooks. The EU "e-commerce VAT directive" specifies that each EU member state has to charge its full rate of VAT for downloaded data, such as music and eBooks. Spain, for example, tried to reduce the VAT rate it charged for eBooks; this was ruled to be unlawful by the European Commission.

This is not correct.

The EU has declared (taking effect from January 2011) that it is acceptable for countries to lower the VAT rate of eBooks to the same level as that of paper books (either 0% or a lower rate depending on the country), but has stated that in the long term they want to get rid of the notion that some products have lower VAT rates than others.

Several EU countries have decided to lower their eBook VAT as a result (including France).

The EU seemed to be swayed by the argument that companies selling books within the EU had to include VAT in their prices, yet companies outside of the EU could sell to EU customers without having to charge any tax at all. This has the potential to make EU companies less competitive which is obviously not desirable.

The British Parliament is able to lower the VAT on eBooks to 0% (to match paper books), but when or if it does that is a matter for them to decide.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Daveoc64

This is not correct.

The EU has declared (taking effect from January 2011) that it is acceptable for countries to lower the VAT rate of eBooks to the same level as that of paper books (either 0% or a lower rate depending on the country), but has stated that in the long term they want to get rid of the notion that some products have lower VAT rates than others.

Do you have any references to this? I have not heard this before, and I would have thought that it would have received some publicity at least, had it been the case.

[carpetmojo]

Well, what the heck, I signed it.

[Also the one to change the national anthem - it's so embarassing being, to my knowledge the only nation that has an anthem praying for the leader !

AND it is so insipid next to an awful lot of others - very noticeable in the Rugby World Cup, not a bummer there so far, apart from ours !

And the Marseilles ? - oh , yes please..... ]

[DMB]

I don't see how one can easily distinguish between educational books and recreational ones. Some of the books I read for pleasure could well be prescribed for academic courses.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Daveoc64

The EU has declared (taking effect from January 2011) that it is acceptable for countries to lower the VAT rate of eBooks to the same level as that of paper books (either 0% or a lower rate depending on the country)

This is only for "any similar physical medium that predominantly reproduce the same textual information content as printed books" (emphasis added). Purely downloadable ebooks are still only allowed to be subject to full rate VAT.

Unless you've spotted a regulation I've missed.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

And if you buy things like DVDs or cheap games, they will come from Jersey and have no VAT included at all. Which is of course good for you, as you pay less.

Not really, since we all need to pay extra taxes to compensate for the corporations that evade paying theirs. You would need to be buying an awful lot of DVDs to make up for that.

[xg4bx]

Originally Posted by elcreative

As a fairly obviously at least comfortably well off person, I can quite see your attitude but I feel that it is an unjust arrangement where, simply because something ceases to have a physical entity, means that it should be taxed and become more expensive and thus restricted to a wealthier part of society than before...

i'm almost as conservative as they come but i agree with that. whether entertainment or otherwise books are knowledge and i fail to see why anyone should restrict knowledge only to those who can afford it, especially with the shocking rise in illiteracy. my feelings are similar when it comes to things like drm.

i could almost understand if it were xbox games or something. almost. but books, whether they be physical or digital, uh-uh.

[Daveoc64]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

This is only for "any similar physical medium that predominantly reproduce the same textual information content as printed books" (emphasis added). Purely downloadable ebooks are still only allowed to be subject to full rate VAT.

Unless you've spotted a regulation I've missed.

I don't believe there is a specific regulation, it's just been agreed after France wanted to do it. I think it was more of a case of the EU regulators establishing whether or not they could do it without a change in the law.

The French Parliament put it on hold until next year though due to internal political considerations, although opposition to lowering the VAT on eBooks seems to have died out now.

As for the wider EU, they are discussing the possibility of eliminating ALL VAT on electronic goods to make the EU more competitive. That would definitely answer the question once and for all and would make it so that all eBooks have 0% VAT in the EU no matter where they are purchased or sold.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Daveoc64

As for the wider EU, they are discussing the possibility of eliminating ALL VAT on electronic goods to make the EU more competitive. That would definitely answer the question once and for all and would make it so that all eBooks have 0% VAT in the EU no matter where they are purchased or sold.

I can't see that happening in the foreseeable future. With the increasing amount of e-commerce that's occurring, and most European governments looking for increased revenue to tackle budget deficits, cutting out a significant source of revenue seems improbable.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Daveoc64

I don't believe there is a specific regulation, it's just been agreed after France wanted to do it. I think it was more of a case of the EU regulators establishing whether or not they could do it without a change in the law.

France have passed such a law, due to come into force in 2012. I don't think that they are legally allowed to do this under current EU law.

I do note that there are moves afoot to get ebooks assigned to the reduced band of VAT, or even to remove VAT from ebooks altogether, but as far as I've been able to find out, nothing has actually been passed to do this.

It's not very surprising that France (and apparently Spain) are willing to pass a law that will be struck down if appealed to the EU.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Not really, since we all need to pay extra taxes to compensate for the corporations that evade paying theirs. You would need to be buying an awful lot of DVDs to make up for that.

Surely you'd only have to be buying more DVDs than most other people do?
And again, the corporations are not evading paying tax.
Not are they avoiding paying tax, because they don't pay it, you do.
Consumers are avoiding paying tax.
(Tax evasion is illegal. Tax avoidance is common sense.)