Amazon is nobody's friend

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

Well that all depends what a capon is.

A capon is a castrated rooster.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

And now it's ALL items it sells. But only for Amazon, right? Because I see that FPL also sells boilers, and I don't think that they are the only ones who do that.

I'm sorry...I don't understand your post.

1. FPL is a monopoly. I can not use another company for my electricity.

2. FPL does NOT sell boilers. If actually read the page you linked, you would see that they are offering to help homeowners make energy saving decisions. A service they've offered for years now.

We have a solution that will help meet your energy efficiency needs. FPL Services offers solutions - from identifying energy-saving opportunities to managing large-scale construction projects. Our expertise includes providing turn-key services and solutions to helping you obtain financing, on projects such as:

* Lighting retrofits
* HVAC installations and improvements
* Central cooling plants
* Backup generating systems
* Energy management control systems
* Motors, boilers and steam systems
* Variable speed drives

Where does it say "We sell the following items"? Nowhere, becuase they don't. What they do is give you suggestions on capacity, placement and settings. And as stated above they will help find contractors to finish a job, not that I would go through them for that as I feel it may be a conflict of interest.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

1. FPL is a monopoly. I can not use another company for my electricity.

Can you install solar panels?

Originally Posted by Nyssa

2. FPL does NOT sell boilers. If actually read the page you linked, you would see that they are offering to help homeowners make energy saving decisions. A service they've offered for years now.

Sorry, my mistake.

Originally Posted by Nyssa

Where does it say "We sell the following items"? Nowhere, becuase they don't. What they do is give you suggestions on capacity, placement and settings. And as stated above they will help find contractors to finish a job, not that I would go through them for that as I feel it may be a conflict of interest.

So they are offering a service that you have alternatives for.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

Can you install solar panels?


Sorry, my mistake.


So they are offering a service that you have alternatives for.

What is your point?

Actually I have no idea what the laws are concerning solar panels. Sure we could install them, but I'm guessing there are regulations that must be followed which may or may not involve FPL. There has to be a reason they haven't been taken apart as yet. The fact remains, however, that FPL's primary function is an electric company. They just so happen to offer additional services.

Amazon's primary function is a mega store. They decided to enter the e-book market. It does not make them a monopoly.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Like I said earlier, if Amazon is a monopoly so is every publishing house, record label, dance company, and/or corporation that has its artist/clients sign exclusive rights deals.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Inconthievable!

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Inconthievable!

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

How in the world can you assume the library got the book from Amazon? There are multiple sources, again proven by the links provided in my post.

If Amazon is the ONLY place allowed to carry the eBook for sale, it stands to reason that the library received their copy through Amazon channels. I don't understand why that seems like a leap of logic.

Anyway, I'm out. You asked for an example of a book only sold at Amazon. Example given.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

If Amazon is the ONLY place allowed to carry the eBook for sale, it stands to reason that the library received their copy through Amazon channels. I don't understand why that seems like a leap of logic.

Anyway, I'm out. You asked for an example of a book only sold at Amazon. Example given.

Umm, actually, what I said was "You can borrow the book from the library". I did not specify format. And again the book is NOT only sold at Amazon as my links show.

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Inconthievable!

It's exactly what I thought when I read the "it does not mean.." line, only because I literally started reading that book yesterday. for some reason the coincidental mention of it cheered me up.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

It's exactly what I thought when I read the "it does not mean.." line, only because I literally started reading that book yesterday. for some reason the coincidental mention of it cheered me up.

Its the Princess Bride! How can it not cheer one up! I love, love love the movie, but unfortunately have yet to read the book. I was given a copy as a gift and it was ruined the very day I took it down to read it.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

What is your point?

You said the fact that Amazon doesn't use distributors to sell the ebooks that they have exclusive rights to doesn't make them a monopoly because people can buy pbooks editions from other distributors or borrow from the library. Now think about the power company situation and how you would react if somebody told that you can't say that they have a monopoly because you can install solar panels.

[Andrew H.]

1. Amazon is not a monopoly because it only has 15% of the book market. When Microsoft ran into trouble, it had 90% of the consumer market. And AT&T (the old Bell) had something like 98% of the phone market.

However, to some extent it depends on how you define the relevant market - if you define the market as the e-book market, Amazon has about 67% of that market. A lot more, but still not 90%. (And it is also in a market with robust competition).

2. Monopolies are not illegal. If 90% of authors decided that they wanted to sign exclusive contracts with Amazon because it offered the best deal, there is no legal problem with that.

3. It *is* illegal to use your monopoly power in one area to attempt to gain market power in another. If Amazon had monopoly e-book control, it would be illegal for them to tell authors that Amazon would only carry their e-books if they made their paper books exclusive to Amazon. This would be using their (almost) complete control of the e-book market to attempt to gain control of the paper market - and authors would essentially have no choice if they wanted to have an e-book.

This was basically what got MS in trouble - they were leveraging their OS monopoly to gain market power in the browser market. (There are, of course, certain issues with this ruling, primarily that many people would agree with MS's suggestion that a browser is part of an OS, in the same way that copying, disk defragging, or recovery functionality is (although there were once freestanding programs for all of these). However, there is also the widespread feeling that if MS didn't do this, it did something else just as bad.)

I've forgotten details of the AT&T breakup, but IIRC they were using their monopoly in residential service to control long-distance service (which was overly expensive to make local service overly inexpensive) and also to control the hardware market. (And probably more).

4. FPL is a utility. Which is not like the monopolies described above; it is a monopoly granted by a political subdivision in exchange for increased oversight and regulation. A utility will have a local monopoly on electricity or gas or water, but will be controlled by a political utility board, that will have to approve rate hikes, service changes, and any other issue that significantly affects service.

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

You said the fact that Amazon doesn't use distributors to sell the ebooks that they have exclusive rights to doesn't make them a monopoly because people can buy pbooks editions from other distributors or borrow from the library. Now think about the power company situation and how you would react if somebody told that you can't say that they have a monopoly because you can install solar panels.

I don't know much about the Amazon exclusivity situation, but regarding the analogy I'm not sure I would consider solar panels a "viable substitute" to standard electric utility, which it would need to be to rule out the monopoly.

[allinhi/]

Originally Posted by HappyMartin

Well its a business, what are you hoping for?

I am constantly amused at people extolling the virtues of capitalism and then getting all hurt and offended at the day to day reality of the system as it works.

What do we want Amazon to do? Apologize for getting so big and promise to stay nice and little? Let all the little guys have a chance? Not make anymore money?

These kind of responses are endemic these days and show how prevelant economic ignorance is. Classic capitalism assumes a level playing field. It assumes that politicians are not influenced by contributions. It assumes that rewards are equal to contributions. It assumes that labor is fairly valued. I could go on much further, but point made I hope. In todays world a few benefit greatly out of all proportion to their contributions. Sharp operators get rich distorting the process and use the media and legislative process to brainwash the public by using their own values against them, to convince us the process is fair and we are the problem.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

I don't know much about the Amazon exclusivity situation, but regarding the analogy I'm not sure I would consider solar panels a "viable substitute" to standard electric utility, which it would need to be to rule out the monopoly.

Why wouldn't it be a "viable substitute"? Also, do you think that getting the book from the library is a "viable substitute" for buying an ebook?