DRM Handcuffs

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Is it encrypted?

I don't know what it is either and Googling doesn't give much info either.

Mine does not appear to be encrypted .

[kennyc]

Thanks. Maybe it is an unencrypted mobi -- even for Kindle?

[BillSmithBooks]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The situation is not as cut and dried as you portray it here. For those who make and distribute DRM removal tools in the US, you are surely correct. But for those who use those tools, it's not so clear. The question is whether DMCA laws trump Fair Use rights... and that question has yet to be answered definitively (legally).

You may end up being right in the long run, but for now... it's still uncharted territory, mired with conflicting legal opinions from both sides of the table.

As I understand it, the DMCA clearly says that removing DRM is a violation of the law without regard to Fair Use Rights. If I recall correctly, Fair Use is specifically overwritten by this law. So until the Supreme Court overturns those portions of the DMCA, you are in violation of the law.

So the gray area is that lots of people strip their DRM, no one has been prosecuted yet, the courts haven't issued a clear ruling (some rulings hint that stripping DRM is legal, others not), but the DMCA still clearly says this is illegal, again, as I understand it.

(Just as lots of things that are NOW legal were once illegal and people were prosecuted for violating the laws of the time.)

If I am factually wrong, please correct me.

The idea being promoted in prior discussion is that removing DRM is no big deal...when in fact it could be a Federal offense that could bankrupt you if you are targeted for prosecution, that's how the law is written.

If anyone would like to remove their DRM and publicly trumpet their actions in order to audition for the test case (and also has the resources to appeal to the US Supreme Court, for until that happens, the issue will likely remain unresolved), I heartily applaud them. It would be interesting. But most of us cannot afford to risk financial ruin to prove a point.

Nor should we, as there are vastly better legal options for many of us...we just need to make sure that readers understand their options and choices and direct consumers to supporting companies that "get it."

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Is it encrypted?

I don't know what it is either and Googling doesn't give much info either.

Apparently it isn't encrypted. The publisher is Crossroad Press, which is DRM-free. But how that works for library borrowing is the question.

[kennyc]

I believe encryption and "time-out" are independent.

I would expect it to time-out just like a non-encrypted book.

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Thanks. Maybe it is an unencrypted mobi -- even for Kindle?

I don't know if Kindle is unencrypted - epub gives you a choice of DRM or no DRM and Kindle is only one choice.

[HarryT]

Any Kindle library book will use DRM; it's what does the time-limiting.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by BillSmithBooks

So the gray area is that lots of people strip their DRM, no one has been prosecuted yet, the courts haven't issued a clear ruling (some rulings hint that stripping DRM is legal, others not), but the DMCA still clearly says this is illegal, again, as I understand it.

Of course the DMCA clearly states it's illegal, that was the goal of the Act. The grey area is whether or not the DMCA's wording reigns supreme. The fact that some court rulings have hinted otherwise (as you've already admitted) is the proof that all is not determined yet.

If I recall correctly, Fair Use is specifically overwritten by this law.

I think you'd be hard-pressed to get very many lawyers to stake their careers on that being the case. That was the goal of the DMCA, yes. Whether or not it was successful has yet to be determined.

But we do agree on one thing: people should be well informed before they make the decision to strip DRM. The act is simple... the repercussions might not be. It's too early to tell.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

I don't know if Kindle is unencrypted - epub gives you a choice of DRM or no DRM and Kindle is only one choice.

Oops I confused things.....
And I see harry is up to his usual confusing tactics as well....
My point was that if the book is an 'open epub' maybe the kindle book is a non-encrypted mobi.

That's what Amazon does often on its free books and samples.

The expiration is not necessarily tied to drm as far as I know.

[cfrizz]

Whether the law clarifies anything or not, the courts have more important issues to deal with then trying to prosecute everyone and their brother/sister for removing drm from their legally purchased books for their own personal use.

There are tons of laws on the books that are simply unenforceable and this is one of them.

So unless you decide to go to a police station and announce that you are breaking the law, I don't think anyone has anything to worry about.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Oops I confused things.....
And I see harry is up to his usual confusing tactics as well....

????? What "confusing tactics" are you referring to?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Apparently it isn't encrypted. The publisher is Crossroad Press, which is DRM-free. But how that works for library borrowing is the question.

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

I don't know if Kindle is unencrypted - epub gives you a choice of DRM or no DRM and Kindle is only one choice.

Please let us know two things, if the Kindle books that are paired with the "open epub" are encrypted or not and if the open epub and kindle books expire at the end of the term. ... Oh wait that's three things.

Thank you !

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Please let us know two things, if the Kindle books that are paired with the "open epub" are encrypted or not and if the open epub and kindle books expire at the end of the term. ... Oh wait that's three things.

Thank you !

I have a feeling that the book I posted earlier will be non DRM because I went to the Amazon site and that book is non DRM there. I'll let you know if the epub expires, but it will be at least 11 days from now - I chose the wrong lending period. I may look for another open epub and borrow it for seven days just to see - 11 days is too long for an impatient person to wait.

I won't let you know about the Kindle expiring because I answered two questions already.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

I have a feeling that the book I posted earlier will be non DRM because I went to the Amazon site and that book is non DRM there. I'll let you know if the epub expires, but it will be at least 11 days from now - I chose the wrong lending period. I may look for another open epub and borrow it for seven days just to see - 11 days is too long for an impatient person to wait.

I won't let you know about the Kindle expiring because I answered two questions already.

Thank you......um...wait, I want my money back.

(and it may act differently is you "return" it -- which I noticed and actually did with a Kindle check out).

[sadievan]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

I have a feeling that the book I posted earlier will be non DRM because I went to the Amazon site and that book is non DRM there. I'll let you know if the epub expires, but it will be at least 11 days from now - I chose the wrong lending period. I may look for another open epub and borrow it for seven days just to see - 11 days is too long for an impatient person to wait.

I won't let you know about the Kindle expiring because I answered two questions already.

A while back I called Overdrive about the 'open epub' asking what is was. They told me it was DRM free. How that relates to expires though I don't know.

Carol