Swearing in books

mattlynn · 09-20-2011, 12:14 PM

I had an e-mail this morning from a reader who said he was a big fan of my books, which was nice of course. But he also pointed out that the characters in the Death Force series used the word ‘sodding’ all the time, and it got a bit repetitive.

He’s right, of course. They do, and it is.

There is a reason, however. They are soldiers. In real life it would be fu%£kig this and f!c£king that. And for some reason, I don’t think swearing works very well in books. I don’t have anything against it in real life, and it can work fine in films, but I print it somehow falls flat.

So I use sodding instead.

But maybe that doesn’t quite work either?

Any other writers have any thoughts?

Matt Lynn

crich70 · 09-20-2011, 12:19 PM

I think that sometimes it might be part of fleshing out a character just like any other trait such as a limp or playing with a lucky coin etc. but that it is possible to overdo it at the same time. And of course there is the still small voice that will ask, "is this really necessary in order to flesh this character out?" as well. So it's a balancing act. First is it necessary for the character and second is it too much?

mattlynn · 09-20-2011, 12:24 PM

I think that too much point is important. Less than in real life, I suspect!

crich70 · 09-20-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattlynn

I think that too much point is important. Less than in real life, I suspect!

Probably. In real life people tend to use such when in an excitable state of mind and it quickly passes out of conscious thought, but when written if it goes on for too long a time it could look just plain silly if not annoying.

HistoryWes · 09-20-2011, 01:54 PM

I think it depends on the book and the characters. I use profanity pretty sparingly in most of my stories. In His Robot Girlfriend, I think the characters swear two or three times. In the Senta and the Steel Dragon Series, the characters use Victorian British idiom, so even though they are swearing, it doesn't sound like it to American ears. In my latest book Blood Trade, the characters dropped the f-bomb a lot. In fact, when I went back and revised it, I just about doubled the profanity. It just seemed to fit the characters and their world.

crich70 · 09-20-2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HistoryWes

I think it depends on the book and the characters. I use profanity pretty sparingly in most of my stories. In His Robot Girlfriend, I think the characters swear two or three times. In the Senta and the Steel Dragon Series, the characters use Victorian British idiom, so even though they are swearing, it doesn't sound like it to American ears. In my latest book Blood Trade, the characters dropped the f-bomb a lot. In fact, when I went back and revised it, I just about doubled the profanity. It just seemed to fit the characters and their world.

Pretty much what I said up above in other words.

EileenG · 09-20-2011, 03:29 PM

If your character is someone who would say "fucking" then have him say that, just not as much as he would in real life. In novels you leave out all the boring "How are you, nice day, shocking weather, how's the wife?" stuff that people really say. You're allowed out leave out the bulk of the cursing as well.

mr ploppy · 09-20-2011, 03:59 PM

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "sodding", and the only time I've ever seen it in print was in a book written by an American attempting to write dialogue for English characters. They said things like "Let's have a sodding cup of tea" all the time.

What's wrong with having them talk properly, is it a children's series or something?

HistoryWes · 09-20-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crich70

Pretty much what I said up above in other words.

Crich70, if I was to limit myself to only things you hadn't said before (and usually better than I could anyway) I'd never get a chance to post anything!

rhadin · 09-20-2011, 05:16 PM

Language defines the character. Although literary characters are meant (oft times) to mimic reality, in reality many of us grow rapidly tired of the neighbor whose vocabulary is limited to 3 words, only one of which would we use among 5-year-olds.

Sometimes mimicking reality is not a good idea in writing. I think overuse of profanity is such a case. When I come across a book that overdoes it (according to my scale), I not only stop reading the book but I find that I actively discourage others from reading it. A character doesn't demonstrate virility or toughness by being able to use every profanity in an endless stream.

crich70 · 09-20-2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HistoryWes

Crich70, if I was to limit myself to only things you hadn't said before (and usually better than I could anyway) I'd never get a chance to post anything!

lol. True maybe though I don't know about my saying it better or not. I meant that you seemed to be in agreement with me is all.

dworth · 09-21-2011, 05:03 AM

Sodding certainly does get used in Britain a lot. It's not regarded as particularly rude, which is odd when you consider what it refers to. On the whole, we do seem to be remarkably potty mouthed compared to our American cousins.

Swearing's fine as long as it suits the character and situation. In 'The Naked and the Dead' by Norman Mailer, the publisher changed every instance of the word 'fuck' to 'fug'. It just looks odd. Presumably they'd never heard the phrase 'swear like a trooper.'

xg4bx · 09-21-2011, 06:29 AM

i use "bloody" quite often on message boards lol. it feels like swearing but its not really.

personally i find too much swearing in books just gets distracting. i should get the sense that its a rough character or situation from the description and the action, i don't need a reiteration of "f this, f that" whenever dialogue appears.

kcmay · 09-21-2011, 09:32 AM

Characters' swearing can be taken too far (Melusine by Sarah Monette), but I don't mind (and use) situation-appropriate swearing. If a f-ing character is in the f-ing habit of f-ing swearing every other f-ing word, maybe there's a way to f-ing get that across without f-ing bogging down the f-ing story with all those f-ing f-bombs.

mr ploppy · 09-21-2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcmay

Characters' swearing can be taken too far (Melusine by Sarah Monette), but I don't mind (and use) situation-appropriate swearing. If a f-ing character is in the f-ing habit of f-ing swearing every other f-ing word, maybe there's a way to f-ing get that across without f-ing bogging down the f-ing story with all those f-ing f-bombs.

The best line in the TV version of Repo-Man was "Flip you, motherflipper, you flipping flip."

09-20-2011, 12:14 PM	#1
mattlynn Member Posts: 21 Karma: 63854 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: kindle	Swearing in books I had an e-mail this morning from a reader who said he was a big fan of my books, which was nice of course. But he also pointed out that the characters in the Death Force series used the word ‘sodding’ all the time, and it got a bit repetitive. He’s right, of course. They do, and it is. There is a reason, however. They are soldiers. In real life it would be fu%£kig this and f!c£king that. And for some reason, I don’t think swearing works very well in books. I don’t have anything against it in real life, and it can work fine in films, but I print it somehow falls flat. So I use sodding instead. But maybe that doesn’t quite work either? Any other writers have any thoughts? Matt Lynn Last edited by Dr. Drib; 09-20-2011 at 03:31 PM. Reason: in-line promotional link removed - MODERATOR

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09-20-2011, 12:19 PM	#2
crich70 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,310 Karma: 43993832 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Monroe Wisconsin Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)	I think that sometimes it might be part of fleshing out a character just like any other trait such as a limp or playing with a lucky coin etc. but that it is possible to overdo it at the same time. And of course there is the still small voice that will ask, "is this really necessary in order to flesh this character out?" as well. So it's a balancing act. First is it necessary for the character and second is it too much?

09-20-2011, 12:24 PM	#3
mattlynn Member Posts: 21 Karma: 63854 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: kindle	I think that too much point is important. Less than in real life, I suspect!

09-20-2011, 01:54 PM	#5
HistoryWes Teacher/Novelist Posts: 632 Karma: 2274466 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Nevada Device: Nook STR, iPad	I think it depends on the book and the characters. I use profanity pretty sparingly in most of my stories. In His Robot Girlfriend, I think the characters swear two or three times. In the Senta and the Steel Dragon Series, the characters use Victorian British idiom, so even though they are swearing, it doesn't sound like it to American ears. In my latest book Blood Trade, the characters dropped the f-bomb a lot. In fact, when I went back and revised it, I just about doubled the profanity. It just seemed to fit the characters and their world.

09-20-2011, 03:29 PM	#7
EileenG Zealot Posts: 146 Karma: 7462052 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Dublin Device: My phone	If your character is someone who would say "fucking" then have him say that, just not as much as he would in real life. In novels you leave out all the boring "How are you, nice day, shocking weather, how's the wife?" stuff that people really say. You're allowed out leave out the bulk of the cursing as well.

09-20-2011, 03:59 PM	#8
mr ploppy Feral Underclass Posts: 3,622 Karma: 26821535 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Yorkshire, tha noz Device: 2nd hand paperback	I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "sodding", and the only time I've ever seen it in print was in a book written by an American attempting to write dialogue for English characters. They said things like "Let's have a sodding cup of tea" all the time. What's wrong with having them talk properly, is it a children's series or something?

09-20-2011, 05:16 PM	#10
rhadin Literacy = Understanding Posts: 4,833 Karma: 59674358 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The World of Books Device: Nook, Nook Tablet	Language defines the character. Although literary characters are meant (oft times) to mimic reality, in reality many of us grow rapidly tired of the neighbor whose vocabulary is limited to 3 words, only one of which would we use among 5-year-olds. Sometimes mimicking reality is not a good idea in writing. I think overuse of profanity is such a case. When I come across a book that overdoes it (according to my scale), I not only stop reading the book but I find that I actively discourage others from reading it. A character doesn't demonstrate virility or toughness by being able to use every profanity in an endless stream.

09-21-2011, 05:03 AM	#12
dworth Zealot Posts: 140 Karma: 2094632 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bradford, UK Device: kindle pc	Sodding certainly does get used in Britain a lot. It's not regarded as particularly rude, which is odd when you consider what it refers to. On the whole, we do seem to be remarkably potty mouthed compared to our American cousins. Swearing's fine as long as it suits the character and situation. In 'The Naked and the Dead' by Norman Mailer, the publisher changed every instance of the word 'fuck' to 'fug'. It just looks odd. Presumably they'd never heard the phrase 'swear like a trooper.'

09-21-2011, 06:29 AM	#13
xg4bx Are you gonna eat that? Posts: 1,633 Karma: 23215128 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Phillipsburg, NJ Device: Kindle 3, Nook STG	i use "bloody" quite often on message boards lol. it feels like swearing but its not really. personally i find too much swearing in books just gets distracting. i should get the sense that its a rough character or situation from the description and the action, i don't need a reiteration of "f this, f that" whenever dialogue appears.

09-21-2011, 09:32 AM	#14
kcmay Addict Posts: 363 Karma: 500001 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Georgia, USA Device: Kindle2	Characters' swearing can be taken too far (Melusine by Sarah Monette), but I don't mind (and use) situation-appropriate swearing. If a f-ing character is in the f-ing habit of f-ing swearing every other f-ing word, maybe there's a way to f-ing get that across without f-ing bogging down the f-ing story with all those f-ing f-bombs.