PRS-T1 Sony T1 is Android

[OrganicJerk]

Originally Posted by kartu

e-Ink reader hardware is VERY different from mobile platform. "E-Ink programming" is "calculate updated UI, update the screen, switch to sleep mode" => VERY different from what one does on mobile platform.

It is technically possible to build crazy android version, but it's a huge effort.

Have you used the new nook touch at all? Or any of the other android based e-ink readers out there (by companies with alot less money than Sony, which puts into question "huge effort")? Android works very well when it is edited to suit.

Originally Posted by kartu

So what incentive is left for Sony to do it? Just having an over-hyped buzzword in the list? Makes no sense.

Better developer support (IE: taking the "load" off of Sony developers). Ability to hire cheaper less specialized programming talent. Easier to translate "user experience" between reader and android App. Easier to update reader software. Cheaper, cheaper, cheaper.

[graycyn]

Originally Posted by log

I think it will be feel like regular Sony software for the most part for you, and will not change the current experience.

But the fact that it seems more and more likely that it is an Android device opens a world of possibilities for "enthusiasts" who like pushing the limits of what these devices can do.

Works for me. I'm not against it being Android, but I do want the currently nice interface to hopefully continue forward, also hopefully continuing to utilize Calibre tags as collections.

[Kolenka]

Originally Posted by Tony1988

I hope its not android. Im sick of it. Sonys os was fine before. I dont think an ereader needs an open source like android. Its a frickin device to read novels on, not play games etc. Get a tablet if thats what you want.

The OS in the 650 is Linux. Android is built on top of Linux. Not a huge difference there beyond what is built on top of the kernel and core set of software.

[kartu]

Originally Posted by OrganicJerk

Have you used the new nook touch at all? Or any of the other android based e-ink readers out there (by companies with alot less money than Sony, which puts into question "huge effort")? Android works very well when it is edited to suit.

Very interesting. Where can I see the list of standard android apps that I can install on Nook Touch without hacking it?

Better developer support (IE: taking the "load" off of Sony developers). Ability to hire cheaper less specialized programming talent. Easier to translate "user experience" between reader and android App. Easier to update reader software. Cheaper, cheaper, cheaper.

Not for Sony. Supporting & extending existing product is much cheaper. B&N was starting from scratch and first version of the device had usual screen. Developer know-how is irrelevant, Sony doesn't pay Kinoma more for Kinoma knowing its own framework.

[Ashjuk]

I have been following this thread with interest, but I have to admit I'm puzzled why anyone would want to run an app other than a reader on an e-Ink device.

Surely with a device that works by refreshing the whole screen anything that requires constant screen changes is going to be very slow.

Personally I will just stick to reading books on mine whatever the operating system.

[=X=]

Originally Posted by Kolenka

One benefit is that Android is mobile-oriented with a larger set of developers working on the foundation of it. This means potential access to more mobile drivers, more chipsets and so on without sinking as much effort having to do all the integration yourself.

And I'm not sure it'd all have to be written from scratch to go to Android, since Linux is the foundation for both. As an OEM, they aren't exactly restricted to Java apps like Google does with ISVs to get onto the Google Market.

The real power of android is the Java foundation and the Android API that has been built on it.

With java you have the truest scene of write once run everywhere.

I don't know what SONY used to create the 505/600, but I don't think it was on Java. I'm pretty sure it was a complete rewrite.

=X=

[Kolenka]

Originally Posted by =X=

The real power of android is the Java foundation and the Android API that has been built on it.

With java you have the truest scene of write once run everywhere.

I don't know what SONY used to create the 505/600, but I don't think it was on Java. I'm pretty sure it was a complete rewrite.

=X=

The Android platform supports some amount of JNI more recently so that developers on that other platform can port code more easily to Android. So you'd need to use Java for the UI, but you can (and should) still run a lot of the frameworks natively rather than through a VM.

Plus, while I'm not 100% sure, I don't believe OEMs are limited by being forced to use Java to target the platform. Maybe HTC can answer that question since they heavily customize things. At some level, it has to go to native to get performance/battery benefits, and an OEM can always plug in there where ISVs normally aren't allowed.

At that point, you don't have a complete re-write, as you can bring your C-based libraries between the Linux base you had before and the Android Linux base. If the code is even remotely well written, it wouldn't take a lot of time to do that, but it would take some time updating the UI.

[OrganicJerk]

Originally Posted by kartu

Very interesting. Where can I see the list of standard android apps that I can install on Nook Touch without hacking it?

Not sure you understand my point. My point is that the Android Backend is already a used and proven one that has worked for ereaders. The Backend, when edited and coupled with an e-ink screen, offers great performance and a matched (comparable or better) battery life as any other reader on the market.

My point is that Android can be stripped rather easily and run as the Backend, which leaves yourself, as an ereader developer, to be just an "app" developer, and not an "operating system" developer. To some extent, anyway.

You want an app? Turn on the Nook Touch and there's the app.

Originally Posted by kartu

Not for Sony. Supporting & extending existing product is much cheaper. B&N was starting from scratch and first version of the device had usual screen. Developer know-how is irrelevant, Sony doesn't pay Kinoma more for Kinoma knowing its own framework.

If you say so. Apparently Sony didn't get the memo.


Although, according to your logic, Sony and BN are taking the same route here. Although BN used Android for their first ereader, it was highly proprietary, which taught them a lesson and they "standardized" the experience and OS. Sony was using a proprietary linux OS in their reader, and they've now (possibly) decided to tack onto an already existing and fruitful architecture.

[kartu]

Originally Posted by OrganicJerk

My point is that Android can be stripped rather easily and run as the Backend, which leaves yourself, as an ereader developer, to be just an "app" developer, and not an "operating system" developer. To some extent, anyway.

You surely could reduce JVM overhead by not using it at all most of the time.
Not to mention, that Sony had JVM of its own.

You want an app? Turn on the Nook Touch and there's the app.

No, I want a list of standard Android apps that run on unhacked Nook Touch.

If you say so. Apparently Sony didn't get the memo.

Devs at Kinoma surely know it. Management geniuses not necessarily.

It might be the same old Kinoma interface running via JNI hook on Android platform. (judging from blurry USB connected screenshot)
This reminds me "brilliant" solution of some bright heads demanding app to be "Visual Basic" and dev turning his Delphi application into an ActiveX control that runs in a VB container.

Sense makes it not. Well, not technically. From marketing "impressive buzzwords" perspective there might be very good reason to.

Sony was using a proprietary linux OS in their reader, and they've now (possibly) decided to tack onto an already existing and fruitful architecture.

Sony is using Monta Vista Linux, which is in no way "Sony proprietary".

[OrganicJerk]

Originally Posted by kartu

No, I want a list of standard Android apps that run on unhacked Nook Touch.

That was NEVER my point, so I dont understand how that helps anything.... you don't understand what I'm saying.

And, otherwise, it seems like we're having two different conversations. Nevermind.

Either way, it is what it is. It looks like Android to me. New door. Walk through. Move on.

[log]

Don't waste your time OrganicJerk.

There are many here on this forum who talk a lot but have no clue what they're talking about -- I've experienced the same.

This place is good to get opinions of regular people who own a device, but to me seems notorious for people who think they know what they're talking about technically but really don't.

[kartu]

You sure know more than me about those devices and IT in general, guys. It is more than obvious. No worries.

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by kartu

Very interesting. Where can I see the list of standard android apps that I can install on Nook Touch without hacking it?

Currently, none. Stock, the Nook Touch doesn't allow for installing any apps. You have to root the device, which all that does is remove the blocks from letting you do what you want with it. Once it is rooted, you can install any android app.

[DoctorOhh]

I have no knowledge or opinion of whether the T-1 is based on Android or not. When it comes out we will know, until then speculating because of an icon or menu item is silly.

Originally Posted by OrganicJerk

Sony was using a proprietary linux OS in their reader

Sony was using Montavista Linux Professional Edition, not exactly proprietary.

Originally Posted by OrganicJerk

they've now (possibly) decided to tack onto an already existing and fruitful architecture.

As opposed to the unfruitful Java Virtual Machine they were already using?

My hope is that whatever they built the T-1 on they still allow direct access via USB to their cache so Calibre will continue to be tightly integrated with Sony devices.

[OrganicJerk]

Originally Posted by dwanthny

Sony was using Montavista Linux Professional Edition, not exactly proprietary.

So I saw from Kartu's post above. I didn't know what build of Linux Sony was using specifically, but I would still figure that finding "Android" programmers are still cheaper than finding "MontaVista Professional Edition" programmers. That was one of my original points, and I still think it holds true.

I didn't originally repeat the word "proprietary" three times over. I repeated the word "cheaper" three times over.

And I would like to state for the record that my point is an opinion (by a non-dev, no less). I know that.

Originally Posted by dwanthny

My hope is that whatever they built the T-1 on they still allow direct access via USB to their cache so Calibre will continue to be tightly integrated with Sony devices.

I can't speak for Sony's use of it (if in fact they are using it), but BN's use of Android on the Nook has left me no worse for wear with calibre than my 950. I don't see why they would shoot themselves in the foot (subjectively speaking) ENTIRELY. But hey, you never know.

Originally Posted by log

There are many here on this forum who talk a lot but have no clue what they're talking about -- I've experienced the same.

This place is good to get opinions of regular people who own a device, but to me seems notorious for people who think they know what they're talking about technically but really don't.

I wouldn't say THAT, at all. Kartu did kinda develop a Whole OS Extension for the Sony PRS series. I would say he more than knows his stuff.

I had PRS+ installed on my PRS-950. It's cool beans.

Just misunderstanding mixed with disagreement. Nothing more.