HTC Sues Apple Using Patents Obtained From Google Last Week - Page 2

murraypaul · 09-12-2011, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emellaich

Anyone have any details on this? I was surprised to read that Google 'transferred' the patents. If they are any good, then surely Google needs them to protect other Android licensees?

I suspect that Google either licensed them to HTC or that they retained a Google license that also gave Google some pretty broad rights.

Patents are being moved around at quite bewildering speed.
Based on a newspaper article I read last week, none of the 9 patents transferred to HTC were actually developed by Google, and were all bought in the last year.

Sil_liS · 09-12-2011, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emellaich

Anyone have any details on this? I was surprised to read that Google 'transferred' the patents. If they are any good, then surely Google needs them to protect other Android licensees?

Protect how? By suing Apple? Like this it gives HTC a stronger case.

emellaich · 09-12-2011, 10:36 AM

Well if the patents have any value, then they would also help Samsung in their battle with Apple and eventually Motorola, LG, and others. Standard IP practice is not to sell, but to license so that you retain rights. I would have expected Google to have retained some rights so that they could offer similar protection to these other Android licensees.

Unless, of course the selling party is going bankrupt and just needs cash.

kjk · 09-12-2011, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emellaich

Anyone have any details on this? I was surprised to read that Google 'transferred' the patents. If they are any good, then surely Google needs them to protect other Android licensees?

I suspect that Google either licensed them to HTC or that they retained a Google license that also gave Google some pretty broad rights.

HTC claims they paid for them. I'm pretty sure they meant licensed. Google isn't going to give up patents to just one of their vendors.

j.p.s · 09-12-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjk

HTC claims they paid for them. I'm pretty sure they meant licensed. Google isn't going to give up patents to just one of their vendors.

Then how could HTC use that as a basis to sue Apple?

kjk · 09-12-2011, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.p.s

Then how could HTC use that as a basis to sue Apple?

Good question-maybe HTC bought them and included a license back to Google?
I just can't imagine Google selling off valuable patents to just one of their partners-esp. one like HTC, who may end up being a competitor.

emellaich · 09-13-2011, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.p.s

Then how could HTC use that as a basis to sue Apple?

A license can grant any rights that you choose. I don't know how you would word it, but I could see the license allowing HTC rights to sublicense.

However it is still a bit puzzling. The way that this game usually works is that both sides (Apple/HTC) have patents that block the other side. What results is a settlement where each is allowed to use the other's patents, with maybe the one with the weaker set of patents having to kick in a few bucks to equalize things.

In this case it starts with Apple telling HTC they can't sell android phones because they infringe on Apple patents. If HTC doesn't have patents of their own, they might have to exit the smartphone business HTC replies, well we've got these patents from google and you can't make iPhones without violating these. Since both sides want to stay in business they agree to cross-license and drop all suits.

However, next Apple goes to Samsung and sues them. Google can't license the same patents to Samsung because wouldn't help, Apple already has permission to use the patents from HTC.

Therefore it jakes more sense for Google to keep the patents and to negotiate the original deal n behalf of all Android licensees, not just HTC.

My only guess is that these are pretty week patents and Google doesn't see much value to them. HTC figures it can't hurt their case. If they lump them in with any other patents or issues that HTC has, perhaps it will add up to enough confusoion to make Apple step back. In this case Google says go for it because they don't think the patents have much value on their own.

murraypaul · 09-13-2011, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emellaich

A license can grant any rights that you choose. I don't know how you would word it, but I could see the license allowing HTC rights to sublicense.

I don't believe that Google could license to HTC the right to sue on their behalf.

emellaich · 09-13-2011, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

I don't believe that Google could license to HTC the right to sue on their behalf.

It wouldn't be the right to sue on their behalf. It would be the right to sublicense -- grant the rights to use by a third party. In this case, HTC would have a right to sublicense a patent that blocks the iPhone. They would then tell Apple that they would sublicense ( and give Apple the ability to sell the iPhone ) if Apple agrees to offer a license for any blocking patents that they hold.

As I mentioned earlier,the problem with this approach is that it negates the ability of Google to use the patent to get broader coverage for all Android licensees.

My original point was that this didn't make sense. If these patents have any value against Apple, Google (who is spending 12 billion for Motorola's patents) would keep them for their own use. On the other hand, HTC Recently bought patents from three other companies, and some analysts have speculated that some of these purchases have only dubious value. It could be just that HTC is taking a kitchen-sink approach: throwing everything possible against Apple in the hopes that the total wad of stuff was yucky enough that Apple would back down. However that doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.

murraypaul · 09-13-2011, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emellaich

It wouldn't be the right to sue on their behalf. It would be the right to sublicense -- grant the rights to use by a third party.

The title of the thread is 'HTC sues Apple ...'
The only way they could sue to enforce the patents is if were the owners of them, so either Google had to sell the patents to HTC or directly enter the fight with Apple, which so far it has chosen not to do.

Sil_liS · 09-13-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emellaich

It could be just that HTC is taking a kitchen-sink approach: throwing everything possible against Apple in the hopes that the total wad of stuff was yucky enough that Apple would back down. However that doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.

Apple started this little patent war against HTC. It's been going on for a year and a half. If throwing more patents at it will make it stop sooner, then why not do that.

But what has been Apple's strategy?

afv011 · 09-13-2011, 11:40 AM

I wonder if, following Google's acquisition of Motorola Mobility, Google thought it would calm any fears HTC could have regarding Android by giving them some patents to help in their fight against Apple.

Graham · 09-13-2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afv011

I wonder if, following Google's acquisition of Motorola Mobility, Google thought it would calm any fears HTC could have regarding Android by giving them some patents to help in their fight against Apple.

Or how about...

HTC: Ah, we're getting fed up with all this heat from Apple. Let's buy webOS.

Google: Will these patents help?

kjk · 09-13-2011, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

Or how about...

HTC: Ah, we're getting fed up with all this heat from Apple. Let's buy webOS.

Google: Will these patents help?

lol, probably close to the truth. But I'd add:

Motorola: Let's get other Android manufacturers to pay us royalties.
Google: We'll buy you for a huge premium instead.

HTC: Let's buy webOS.
Google: Will these patents help?

Samsung:

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09-12-2011, 10:36 AM	#18
emellaich Wizard Posts: 1,101 Karma: 4388403 Join Date: Oct 2007 Device: Palm>Ebookman>IPaq>Axim>Cybook>Kndl2>IPAD>Kndl3SO>Voyager>Oasis	Well if the patents have any value, then they would also help Samsung in their battle with Apple and eventually Motorola, LG, and others. Standard IP practice is not to sell, but to license so that you retain rights. I would have expected Google to have retained some rights so that they could offer similar protection to these other Android licensees. Unless, of course the selling party is going bankrupt and just needs cash.

09-13-2011, 11:40 AM	#27
afv011 Captain Penguin Posts: 2,964 Karma: 2079777777 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Seattle, WA Device: Kobo Clara BW, Kobo Libra 2, Nook Glowlight	I wonder if, following Google's acquisition of Motorola Mobility, Google thought it would calm any fears HTC could have regarding Android by giving them some patents to help in their fight against Apple.