Yup, another one of these. Help an open-source vigilante?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by p_a_smith

Never had problems with any of the Kobos I have owned - have an original and the latest gen Touch which has a virtual keyboard instead of the physical one the kindle has. Each firmware update actually adds new features meaning my original can do more than it did when I bought it. (Yes the updates also take care of bugs as well. The one which is prevalent in the forum now is a storage error message on the Touch which for me appeared once and after I clicked cancel never appeared again. The Kobo developers are actually on these forums and any bugs get ironed out in a short time with a new update. Not sure about the Kindle presence here or the frequency of firmware updates.)

I'm sure you'd agree, though, that it's lacking in features compared to its competitors. The lack of a search facility within a book, and the lack of annotation capabilities are both significant. They may well be added in the future, but one should never rely on future enhancements.

[p_a_smith]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm sure you'd agree, though, that it's lacking in features compared to its competitors. The lack of a search facility within a book, and the lack of annotation capabilities are both significant. They may well be added in the future, but one should never rely on future enhancements.

Personally I use my ereader for reading books and have never been interested or wanted those features (ditto for the MP3 player). I can get to the page I want, bookmark where I have been, and borrow from the library which is all I want from an e-reader. If those features (search within books and annotation) are important then perhaps a Kobo is not the best ereader for you.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by p_a_smith

Personally I use my ereader for reading books and have never been interested or wanted those features (ditto for the MP3 player). I can get to the page I want, bookmark where I have been, and borrow from the library which is all I want from an e-reader. If those features (search within books and annotation) are important then perhaps a Kobo is not the best ereader for you.

I find them both to be extremely useful. For complex detective stories (my favourite reading matter) when some character pops up whom you've not encountered for 200 pages, it's very useful to be able to search for the name and see what they were last doing in the story. I create and proof-read a lot of ebooks, and use annotation extensively to note the errors that I find while I'm reading.

[p_a_smith]

Curious and off topic

What format can you export those annotations from your kindle?

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

I leave myself in your experienced hands. Thanks for chugging through this behemoth of a post.

The Kindle satisfies points 2, 3, 4 and 5 of your requirements. (Price, world-wide 3G, newspaper/magazine subscriptions, wifi & 3G with option to turn off.)

1. You won't find any fully open-source readers that can read commercial ebooks, as the DRM used precludes them being fully open source.
6. No touch screen on a Kindle. The keyboard is surprisingly useful though.
7. Kindles reads Kindle ebooks and PDF. Use calibre to convert.
8. Kindle works fine with Linux. Unlike all Adobe ePub readers which require Mac or Windows for Adobe Digital Editions.

The Kindle has a web browser, which is OK. The slow refresh rate of eInk must be taken into account. But for emergency use through 3G it's a lot better than nothing.

With your requirements and in your price range you're not going to do better at the moment than the Amazon Kindle 3 with 3G, although to get in under $150 you'd need to buy a refurbished one for $130 instead of the brand new ones for $189.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by p_a_smith

Curious and off topic

What format can you export those annotations from your kindle?

They end up in a text file called "My clippings". You just copy it to your PC.

[p_a_smith]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I find them both to be extremely useful. For complex detective stories (my favourite reading matter) when some character pops up whom you've not encountered for 200 pages, it's very useful to be able to search for the name and see what they were last doing in the story. I create and proof-read a lot of ebooks, and use annotation extensively to note the errors that I find while I'm reading.

I prefer my laptop for proofing manuscripts since I find that I often want a full browser (Kobo's is quite basic not sure what the Kindle web browser is like) and full keyboard as I prefer to update to the source file while I correct. But hey it obviously works for you which means the kindle is a good choice for you.

[HarryT]

Absolutely! Being happy with what you're reading on is the most important thing. There's no device that's right for everyone.

[Ankh]

Originally Posted by HarryT

When you say "jump through their hoops", what specifically are you referring to?

In my case, avoiding practically everything that Amazon wants you to do with your eInk reader, aside from reading, of course.

Ease of purchase directly to the reader? That's the last thing that I want. My TBR list is so long that it bothers me, even now. Sideloading is good, it gives me a chance to think twice.

Annotation is not an issue, I am almost convinced that tablet (iPad with retina screen would do it nicely) is the only thing that can do it for my letter sized PDF technical specs. Eink refresh rate is too slow, 6" form factor is ideal for dedicated ebook reader.

3G, WiFi? Why would I need that connectivity on a dedicated reader? Eink reader is a poor substitute for a generic computing platform targeted by tablets and smartphones. If I am away from the house, I definitely need GPS and/or a phone. If I have to have a mobile handy, why not opt for smartphone and be done with it? It is smaller. Disconnected eInk reader is precisely what is needed on the beach, for example.

These days, I read for pleasure almost exclusively on eInk. No need to sync with other devices. I gave up on calibre automatic download to eInk reader, I go to my computer to check BBC site. A video clip might pop up.

Kindle is cheaper, but not enough for me to go Duokan route and give up on Adobe DRM, which I still need for public library.

I respect the choices made by Kindle owners, I understand the value proposition of the Amazon ecosystem. What Kindle owners frequently tend to forget or oversee is that the very appealing features that work for them might be perceived as unnecessary nuisance by those who don't need them and/or don't want them.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

There's an issue though. No way I am getting a Kindle. Or a Nook. Which brings me to my first and most important criteria for an e-reader.

You should ignore the lock-in attempts and evaluate Kindle & Nook as devices, rather than as adverts/promotions for proprietary lock-in companies. They really can be used for a lot more content than Amazon or B&N would like. (That said, I don't want a Kindle because epub is a more versatile format than .mobi, and I don't like the extra size the keyboard brings; I don't want a Nook because the extra size & battery drain of the non-e-ink screen part, and because its support for sideloaded books--the ones not bought from their store--is shaky.)

1. Open-source. I am a total nerd over this. I run Linux on my desktop and my netbook, and I have an Android phone which is soon to be rooted. I hate DRM, and I hate "walled gardens." I don't want a device that tries to lock me out of my own possessions or prevent me from purchasing elsewhere. An e-reader which has a DRM-free store would be a major, major plus in my book. I know I can strip the DRM, but I don't want to support a company that practices that as a rule.

No ebook reader connects easily-and-simply to non-DRM stores, but books from non-DRM stores can be used on ANY e-reader. Kindle is worst for lock-in; DRM'd books from Amazon can't be read on non-Kindle (dedicated) ereaders, and you can't buy DRM'd ebooks from anywhere else & read them on the Kindle. (Without stripping the DRM. Which, I suspect, is not going to be something you fret about, but that doesn't mean you want the hassles.)

2. Price. I'm looking for affordable. $150 and under.

I suggest dropping this requirement. Not that I have anything specific in mind, but if you like (love) reading, and you find the device that has the features you want, pay *whatever* it costs. It'll be worth it. Don't settle for not-quite-right in order to save $25.

3. Travel-friendly. Apparently some e-readers with internet connectivity don't work outside the US? I travel a lot.

Kindle, Nook & Sony 950 are the only ones I know that have internet at all. (I could be wrong, in which case I'm sure someone will step in & correct me.)
E-ink on a 6" screen is not good for web browsing--you can check your mail, look up things at wikipedia, read text-heavy sites... but the multimedia support is pretty much nil, and the slow refresh speed means you can't (effectively) do chat or compose long messages.

An e-reader is *not* going to be a good web-browser; non-US support is secondary to that.

4. Preferably with news and magazines as an option. I wouldn't call it necessary, but I'd like it.

Those are options you can arrange for yourself with the right software; Calibre (and possibly other things) can set up subscriptions of RSS feeds, and magazines can be bought from several ebook stores. If it's not a big important feature, I'd suggest skipping it while you look for what is important, and then figure out how much news/mags you can get later.

5. Wifi would be good. If there's something that's not a Kindle which has free 3G that would be cool, though. As long as there is a way to turn off the wifi/3G to preserve battery.

Everything that has wireless internet has a way to shut it off. Nothing but the Kindle has free 3G. (Sony has it--but only to connect to their store.)

6. I'd prefer touch-enabled over a physical keyboard.

Touchscreens are trendy; more e-readers are getting them. I prefer buttons on the side, not a keyboard, but I'm not looking for internet or note-taking ability.

7. Something that reads a variety of formats would be a major plus.

The Sonys support .epub, .pdf, .rtf and .txt.
Nook supports .epub and .pdf.
Kindle: .mobi/.prc, .pdf and .txt.
Jinke ereaders (multiple brand names): .epub, .pdf (those two can do ADE DRM), .mobi... and claims to support .doc, .html, .txt and .fb2, but the one I have, those are all badly supported. (Anything that hyphenates the word "years" is not what I call format support.)

8. And of course, it would be grand if it played nice with Linux, or ran Linux itself... since everything I own is Linux.

I b'lieve most of them have a Linux kernel. You might look into the Open Inkpot project, which is open source firmware for the Jinke readers.

I was looking into the Kobo Touch. Does that sound like a likely candidate for me? If there is something coming out in the next month or two likely to fit my needs, that would be good to know.

Can't browse the internet on a Kobo; you can only access their store.

Also, do e-readers with wifi typically allow you to browse? I sometimes have readings assigned that are listed in a repository on the school website, which you then download and view as a PDF/Doc Viewer.

Won't work. Most don't have download, don't support javascript & other in-browser special displays. You'd have to download the documents on a computer & then sideload them to the ereader.

And PDF support ranges from "mediocre" to "atrocious" on all ereaders; this is mostly because of how the PDFs are made. (My PDFs work beautifully on my ereaders... because I make them with pages sized for 6" screens.)

If you intend to read a lot of PDFs for academic/research, you need a larger screen, like the Kindle DX; trying to read letter-sized PDFs on a 6" screen is a recipe for madness. You can do a few of them, but you're really not going to want that as a permanent method.

---
I've been reading a Sony PRS-505 for a few years, and recently mostly-switched to a Pocket EZ-Reader, with a smaller screen. I read *constantly.* If you're going to have a netbook with you most of the time, you don't need wireless support on your ereader.

Worth noting:
1) No e-reader is really good for academic support. The navigation software doesn't support flipping back & forth between multiple books or chapter sections; the bookmarking/annotation options are rudimentary; display of PDFs is, charitably, limited. E-readers are designed for leisure reading, and they're incredible for that; using them for anything else takes creativity and causes frustration.

2) You haven't mentioned storage capacity. While it mostly doesn't matter (the idea of anyone *needing* an 8gb memory card for ebooks is ridiculous), it's worth being aware of while you're looking at what's available. Some readers support cards; some don't.

3) Most people who like reading, like whatever ereader they decide on. The joys of OMG 200 BOOKS IN MY POCKET ALL THE TIME outweigh whatever annoying idiosyncrasies they've wound up getting. They have pros and cons, but those are less important than "how important is it to you, to always have a book at hand?"

[p_a_smith]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Can't browse the internet on a Kobo; you can only access their store.

Kobo Touch has a basic browser built in and while I'm not sure why anyone would want to surf on an e-ink device (personal comment others may love it) it can be done.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by p_a_smith

Kobo Touch has a basic browser built in and while I'm not sure why anyone would want to surf on an e-ink device (personal comment others may love it) it can be done.

Thanks; I'd heard it only went to the store, but it's possible that was older info.

My daughter spends a lot of time at fanfiction.net on her Kindle; I expect any of the e-ink readers would be fine for that kind of reading. And they're okay for basic check-the-email, see-if-the-reply-came-through, if not actual correspondence.

[wallcraft]

I suggest devices that support FBReader. You can get FBReaderJ for Android, but this is the original FBReader for Linux. For example, EInk devices from PocektBook and Boox and 5" LCD devices from JetBook. In the US, Dunlin's Books sells a selection and so does pocketbook's web site. These unfortunately tend to be a bit more expensive than the devices from booksellers. However, I see that Dunlin's currently has a Boox 60 (with the discontinued older screen) for $99.

The JetBook Mini isn't E-Ink and is has no WiFi, but it is a pure non-DRM play that only reads the FB2 ebook format - with all other formats "supported" by the owner using Calibre on a PC/Mac to convert to FB2. The Boox and PocketBook EInk devices support Adobe DRM via Adobe's reader software but also include FBReader for many DRM-free ebook formats.

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

You should ignore the lock-in attempts and evaluate Kindle & Nook as devices, rather than as adverts/promotions for proprietary lock-in companies. They really can be used for a lot more content than Amazon or B&N would like. (That said, I don't want a Kindle because epub is a more versatile format than .mobi, and I don't like the extra size the keyboard brings; I don't want a Nook because the extra size & battery drain of the non-e-ink screen part, and because its support for sideloaded books--the ones not bought from their store--is shaky.)

No ebook reader connects easily-and-simply to non-DRM stores, but books from non-DRM stores can be used on ANY e-reader. Kindle is worst for lock-in; DRM'd books from Amazon can't be read on non-Kindle (dedicated) ereaders, and you can't buy DRM'd ebooks from anywhere else & read them on the Kindle. (Without stripping the DRM. Which, I suspect, is not going to be something you fret about, but that doesn't mean you want the hassles.)

I suggest dropping this requirement. Not that I have anything specific in mind, but if you like (love) reading, and you find the device that has the features you want, pay *whatever* it costs. It'll be worth it. Don't settle for not-quite-right in order to save $25.

Thanks for the store links. I will look into those.

Why are those shaky reasons? I'll come back to this at the end...

I'm sure it must be nice to not have to consider budget when purchasing things, but unfortunately I'm not really there, as a full-time student. I can't simply "drop that requirement."

Kindle, Nook & Sony 950 are the only ones I know that have internet at all. (I could be wrong, in which case I'm sure someone will step in & correct me.)
E-ink on a 6" screen is not good for web browsing--you can check your mail, look up things at wikipedia, read text-heavy sites... but the multimedia support is pretty much nil, and the slow refresh speed means you can't (effectively) do chat or compose long messages.

The Kobo looks to have wifi. Although since it's been pointed out to me that I won't be able to load the readings from my school website on the reader, I'm now not as concerned about internet capability at all. I mostly wanted it for that. Side-loading it off my netbook should take all of 30 seconds.

An e-reader is *not* going to be a good web-browser; non-US support is secondary to that.

Those are options you can arrange for yourself with the right software; Calibre (and possibly other things) can set up subscriptions of RSS feeds, and magazines can be bought from several ebook stores. If it's not a big important feature, I'd suggest skipping it while you look for what is important, and then figure out how much news/mags you can get later.

Everything that has wireless internet has a way to shut it off. Nothing but the Kindle has free 3G. (Sony has it--but only to connect to their store.)

Touchscreens are trendy; more e-readers are getting them. I prefer buttons on the side, not a keyboard, but I'm not looking for internet or note-taking ability.

Touch screens are also a lot kinder on your hands when you tend to run them ragged from writing too much - I've had something with touch capability for years because it's just so much easier on my hands. It's also neat and more intuitive to use to me, but my hands really do prefer it.

The Sonys support .epub, .pdf, .rtf and .txt.
Nook supports .epub and .pdf.
Kindle: .mobi/.prc, .pdf and .txt.
Jinke ereaders (multiple brand names): .epub, .pdf (those two can do ADE DRM), .mobi... and claims to support .doc, .html, .txt and .fb2, but the one I have, those are all badly supported. (Anything that hyphenates the word "years" is not what I call format support.)

I b'lieve most of them have a Linux kernel. You might look into the Open Inkpot project, which is open source firmware for the Jinke readers.

Can't browse the internet on a Kobo; you can only access their store.

Won't work. Most don't have download, don't support javascript & other in-browser special displays. You'd have to download the documents on a computer & then sideload them to the ereader.

And PDF support ranges from "mediocre" to "atrocious" on all ereaders; this is mostly because of how the PDFs are made. (My PDFs work beautifully on my ereaders... because I make them with pages sized for 6" screens.)

If you intend to read a lot of PDFs for academic/research, you need a larger screen, like the Kindle DX; trying to read letter-sized PDFs on a 6" screen is a recipe for madness. You can do a few of them, but you're really not going to want that as a permanent method.

---
I've been reading a Sony PRS-505 for a few years, and recently mostly-switched to a Pocket EZ-Reader, with a smaller screen. I read *constantly.* If you're going to have a netbook with you most of the time, you don't need wireless support on your ereader.

Worth noting:
1) No e-reader is really good for academic support. The navigation software doesn't support flipping back & forth between multiple books or chapter sections; the bookmarking/annotation options are rudimentary; display of PDFs is, charitably, limited. E-readers are designed for leisure reading, and they're incredible for that; using them for anything else takes creativity and causes frustration.

2) You haven't mentioned storage capacity. While it mostly doesn't matter (the idea of anyone *needing* an 8gb memory card for ebooks is ridiculous), it's worth being aware of while you're looking at what's available. Some readers support cards; some don't.

3) Most people who like reading, like whatever ereader they decide on. The joys of OMG 200 BOOKS IN MY POCKET ALL THE TIME outweigh whatever annoying idiosyncrasies they've wound up getting. They have pros and cons, but those are less important than "how important is it to you, to always have a book at hand?"

The extra readings I have online are fairly short - 10-20 page PoliSci readings. I figure it should be ok for that, though I understand e-readers aren't ready for full academic texts yet. But they should be ok for that, yeah?

I am not hugely worried about storage capacity. I can't ever seen myself filling up much more than a gig, and if I did, I wouldn't be keeping it all on my e-reader simultaneously anyway. I have been keeping an eye out for microSD compatibility, though. That would be nice to have, especially if it's one of those that has very small internal memory.



Just a quick note to everyone. I say this in the nicest way possible, because I've seen this before on other specialty item forums and I know it's always with the best of intent.

But please don't tell me that my needs and my ethics don't matter, if they happen to disqualify the product you like. It doesn't mean I'm insulting your e-reader. It just means that's not what I want. Or maybe not what I can responsibly afford. Or not what is physically viable for me to use. Or not what I feel ethically ok about as an artist.

I don't like feeling like I have to justify everything on my list. The only person I should have to justify it to is me. I'm not coming down on anyone else's choices. They're just not my choices.

[pidgeon92]

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

I don't like feeling like I have to justify everything on my list.

Of course you don't. However, right now a device that has everything on your list simply doesn't exist, which is why people recommend workarounds on existing devices.