Sherlock Holmes Removed from School Reading List

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I think Doyle saw him as a hero, if that makes sense. There's a lot of "poor, tormented soul" overtones in the text as I read it, and implications that any right-thinking man would have done the same thing.

I disagree. I see it more as: criminals have more interesting personalities and motives than the innocent. I don't think that even Sherlock Holmes is portrayed as the good guy. He just looks at the world as a puzzle, with the bad guys being the more striking pieces.

[anamardoll]

Possibly I know too much about Doyle's personal life to be objective. Or maybe it's just subjective overall.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Possibly I know too much about Doyle's personal life to be objective. Or maybe it's just subjective overall.

Then I'm happy that I don't know anything about Doyle's personal life.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

Then I'm happy that I don't know anything about Doyle's personal life.

Great gods, you should be. You can't un-ring the bell.

[Namekuseijin]

How about we ban religion altogether? Can't you see how much froth it brings? You can't submit children to read fiction about religious people perpetrating crimes, but somehow it is ok for children to read how Moses would slay his enemies and their children, how a drunken old man would fock his 2 sluttish daughters etc.

I can see how severed beyond repair is the head of people submitted to such reading. I approve the ban of dementia-inducing books.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

How about we ban religion altogether? Can't you see how much froth it brings? You can't submit children to read fiction about religious people perpetrating crimes, but somehow it is ok for children to read how Moses would slay his enemies and their children, how a drunken old man would fock his 2 sluttish daughters etc.

I can see how severed beyond repair is the head of people submitted to such reading. I approve the ban of dementia-inducing books.

After speaking with a friend who has children this age, I have a slightly different understanding of the situation:

The problem isn't the discussion of Mormons or if the work is critical of them...it is that the work is factually incorrect to a large degree - and incorrect in a prejudicial way.

The problem that occurs for the parent, according to my friend, is that each teacher may teach your child something different about the situation. Now the parent's responsibility has been doubled. If the parent hasn't read SiS (which they should have already before their child!) they need to read that. The parent also needs to find out what the teacher taught the child about the book. The parent needs to find out what the teacher taught the child about the differences between Mormons in the book vs real life at that time period vs today. The parent needs to research this information in order to make sure the teacher was not teaching the child his/hers own personal prejudices. After all of that, the parent may now need to remove the teacher's prejudices from their child and teach them the truth.

According to my friend, instead of doing all of that, they would rather the school system to use a different Sherlock Holmes book (My friend rec'd The Man with the Twisted Lip, too and allow the parent to delve into those sensitive waters when they are prepared to do so.

[Namekuseijin]

It is not fact, it is fiction. Then again, so is walking on water. Perhaps reading fiction might make them question their beliefs...

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

The problem isn't the discussion of Mormons or if the work is critical of them...it is that the work is factually incorrect to a large degree - and incorrect in a prejudicial way.

Although I think the best thing to do is read another Holmes book, I think the "incorrectness" of SiS is still a matter of healthy debate. Alas, this thread isn't in the religion forum, but I will recommend "Under The Banner of Heaven" for an opposing viewpoint on Mormon history and a few relatively-mass murders that no one can *quite* agree if they were committed by Mormons or by American Natives or by a third, unknown party.

It's probably better to just teach Holmes with a different book, though, than turn an English class into a History class on a contentious subject.

[phenomshel]

I probably should just leave this alone, but:

Originally Posted by wodin

As long as we're listing books that disparage particular religions/denominations/sects, let's also ban Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy.

My ex did just this for our son. There are numerous reasons why he is my ex, but this is one of them.

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I've never read this series but I've watched many an argument about it. Personally, I try to avoid all mention of this series due to the flame wars I've seen it cause.

Ditto what Mrs. Joseph says. Add Harry Potter to that list. My ex hates that one, too.

All that being said; My mother never even attempted to censor my reading material, unless you count hiding her copy of "The Happy Hooker" under the mattress (where I found it anyway). When allowed (remember the ex), I've followed the same path with my kids. I remember being bored silly by "The Hound of the Baskervilles" in Jr. High, but loving it later, so I wonder if possibly teaching Sherlock to Jr. High kids isn't setting them up to hate the books, because they don't understand them. (Just an idle curiosity thing, NO, I am by no means advocating dumbing down reading curriculums, so just don't go there!). But by and large, I agree with Diap and whoever else it was (I'm too lazy to go look).. PC is a curse.

[anamardoll]

Your ex banned His Dark Materials from the house?

[phenomshel]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Your ex banned His Dark Materials from the house?

Yes. , I was not the happiest of campers.

I might add here that he didn't even READ it before banning it, he banned it on some right wing conservative talk show host's say-so.

[TimW]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

Yes. , I was not the happiest of campers.

I might add here that he didn't even READ it before banning it, he banned it on some right wing conservative talk show host's say-so.

Well, as long as he had a good reason. When some knuckle-dragging misanthrope babbles insane lies from the mysterious talking box, it's best to follow its advice to the letter.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Although I think the best thing to do is read another Holmes book, I think the "incorrectness" of SiS is still a matter of healthy debate. Alas, this thread isn't in the religion forum, but I will recommend "Under The Banner of Heaven" for an opposing viewpoint on Mormon history and a few relatively-mass murders that no one can *quite* agree if they were committed by Mormons or by American Natives or by a third, unknown party.

It's probably better to just teach Holmes with a different book, though, than turn an English class into a History class on a contentious subject.

I agree, I think it would foster healthy debate...if your child goes to a good school and has a good teacher, that is. If you are unfortunate enough to live in the capital and have your child in the public school system here...well...let's just say that I wouldn't expect a child to learn what color the sky is here. I worry horribly about the poor children in the public school system in Atlanta. I'm sure they don't even know what scarlet is, let alone Sherlock Holmes.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

Yes. , I was not the happiest of campers.

I might add here that he didn't even READ it before banning it, he banned it on some right wing conservative talk show host's say-so.

Good grief. Tell him to shove it, would be my advice, but it's none of my business. I think His Dark Materials is a lovely series and if it generates an interesting conversation between child and parent, even better. If nothing else, it can be framed as "this isn't what we believe, but there are a lot of other people in the world with different beliefs..."

TimW, you crack me up.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I agree, I think it would foster healthy debate...if your child goes to a good school and has a good teacher, that is. If you are unfortunate enough to live in the capital and have your child in the public school system here...well...let's just say that I wouldn't expect a child to learn what color the sky is here. I worry horribly about the poor children in the public school system in Atlanta. I'm sure they don't even know what scarlet is, let alone Sherlock Holmes.

Definitely, the unsolved murder mysteries in Utah back in the day would be a good conversation with a great teacher who was very well-informed on the subject, but given that one can't expect a grade school teacher to know every little facet of our nation's huge history, it seems better suited for maybe a specialty college class, since the whole thing IS pretty complex and there are good arguments on all sides.