Sherlock Holmes Removed from School Reading List - Page 3

MrsJoseph · 08-12-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wodin

Sorry, I was commenting on Harry’s post above yours, you just happened to hit the send button before me.

I apologize.

SCION · 08-12-2011, 05:27 PM

Education in the U.S. has become watered down, sugar coated, and honey dipped simply because adults are too lazy to present non-homogeneous worldviews. I have a 9 year old in 5th grade and an 11 year old in 6th. I often give them reading assignments that promote critical thinking and reasoning skills. Some content most parents would avoid. It's gotten to the point where my 6th grader directly challenges things that the teachers say, unabashedly presenting a historical worldview that conflicts with his classmates and the Simple Simon textbooks. His teachers routinely say to him that's not a topic for discussion at this time. In conversing with him you'd think he is much older because he doesn't have a cotton candy view of life.

carpetmojo · 08-12-2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinC

Holmes was also a cocaine user and played silly games with loaded revolvers. I'm surprised he got onto the reading list in the first place.

He was a smoker too.

He also wore a very silly hat..........

mikeayers · 08-12-2011, 06:38 PM

Slightly OT...
Since it's been "BANNED" I went to project gutenberg to get a copy (cause it must be good if it's been banned).
Doyle sure wrote a bunch of books.

Hamlet53 · 08-12-2011, 06:51 PM

On the face of it I agree that if there is material in A Study in Scarlet that might offend current Mormons, even though the story describes a Mormon Church that no longer exists, it seems alright to just substitute a different Sherlock Holmes novel. Even though I suspect that A Study in Scarlet was selected because it was the first and where the characters were first introduced.

As I said “on the face of it.” But where does it end? Should Elmer Gantry be disallowed for its unflattering portrayal of evangelical Christians? To Kill a Mockingbird for its unflattering portrayal of white southerners? Grapes of Wrath for the criticism of large farm owners, banks, and capitalism in general? I bet there are a lot in the Republican Party as it now exists that would say yes to all of these.

hidari · 08-12-2011, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinC

Holmes was also a cocaine user and played silly games with loaded revolvers. I'm surprised he got onto the reading list in the first place.

He was a smoker too.

LAME. The amount of writers that used drugs, smoked, drank and commited 'immmoral' acts would cause hundreds of books to be banned.....

'he also smoked' very lame but if you're being sarky....a good one...

kjk · 08-12-2011, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carpetmojo

He also wore a very silly hat..........

Only in the films!

carld · 08-12-2011, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carpetmojo

I always feel the "weaker" a creed/belief/way of life, or whatever, the more sensitive followers are to criticism, humour, commonsense or the cold light of truth............

'course, that's just my opinion........................

Your point being what? It's okay to say derogatory things about people because only the "weak" should be offended? Or that standing up for yourself when insulted is a sign of weakness?

I don't understand your post at all.

Hellmark · 08-13-2011, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidari

LAME. The amount of writers that used drugs, smoked, drank and commited 'immmoral' acts would cause hundreds of books to be banned.....

'he also smoked' very lame but if you're being sarky....a good one...

What does the writer's actions have to do with anything? Apples and oranges. Sherlock Holmes is a fictional character, who in the stories was known to have issues with opium. HUGE difference between the author who wrote what you're reading doing drugs, and the characters in what you're reading doing drugs.

Shimarenda · 08-13-2011, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellmark

Sherlock Holmes is a fictional character, who in the stories was known to have issues with opium.

A slight correction: Holmes's only issue with opium was that it was a drug for lowlifes. He used cocaine, a classier drug at the time. And tobacco, of course.

Shimarenda · 08-13-2011, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCION

Education in the U.S. has become watered down, sugar coated, and honey dipped simply because adults are too lazy to present non-homogeneous worldviews. I have a 9 year old in 5th grade and an 11 year old in 6th. I often give them reading assignments that promote critical thinking and reasoning skills. Some content most parents would avoid. It's gotten to the point where my 6th grader directly challenges things that the teachers say, unabashedly presenting a historical worldview that conflicts with his classmates and the Simple Simon textbooks. His teachers routinely say to him that's not a topic for discussion at this time. In conversing with him you'd think he is much older because he doesn't have a cotton candy view of life.

I sincerely applaud you for doing your duty as a parent. It is the only chance our industrial-style, mass educational system has of success, especially now with the additional burdens of politically motivated paperwork and standardized testing.

DiapDealer · 08-13-2011, 10:41 AM

I find this* all very silly... a very disturbing, sad, pointless kind of silly.

*the actual decision, not the discussion concerning its pointlessness.

Shimarenda · 08-13-2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_925270.html

I suppose this would also apply to Riders of the Purple Sage?

I might be able to form an opinion if the article had said why the book was assigned in the first place.

carpetmojo · 08-13-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carld

Your point being what? It's okay to say derogatory things about people because only the "weak" should be offended? Or that standing up for yourself when insulted is a sign of weakness?

I don't understand your post at all.

Firstly, my point was that the institution should be secure enough in it's beliefs to weather unfavourable comments in a book written a very long time ago, that has possibly been "lived with" by the institution 'till now, and been read by millions without this "religious" group crashing down.
Not that I know if the silly decision to censor the choice of book was taken, in this case, by a Mormon. If it was, that's a different, in my opinion worse, case scenario.

Secondly, I did not say that it's OK..... because "only the weak should be offended". My use of the word referred to institutions, cults, organisations, groups, whatever, not individuals, and institutions. And "derogatory" , which I did not use, is always , primarily, in the eye of the beholder.
Anyone can be offended, but I don't consider that sufficient grounds for the offended party to foist their beliefs or feelings on others.

Thirdly, I did not say "standing up for yourself when insulted is a sign of weakness".
Quite the contrary, I happen to think think you should stand up for yourself when insulted - if you really think it is a bad enough insult to warrant it .

I agree with Diap - what a silly action to take at this point in time, when the book seems to have not shaken any foundations - to date.....

carld · 08-13-2011, 02:37 PM

Thanks for the clarification. Your post really went over my head, by like a mile.

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08-12-2011, 05:27 PM	#32
SCION Séduisant Posts: 4,706 Karma: 2107018 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Texas, USA Device: Boox Note Air2+; Kobo Libra2; Kindle Scribe, Oasis3; iPad Mini6	Education in the U.S. has become watered down, sugar coated, and honey dipped simply because adults are too lazy to present non-homogeneous worldviews. I have a 9 year old in 5th grade and an 11 year old in 6th. I often give them reading assignments that promote critical thinking and reasoning skills. Some content most parents would avoid. It's gotten to the point where my 6th grader directly challenges things that the teachers say, unabashedly presenting a historical worldview that conflicts with his classmates and the Simple Simon textbooks. His teachers routinely say to him that's not a topic for discussion at this time. In conversing with him you'd think he is much older because he doesn't have a cotton candy view of life.

08-12-2011, 06:38 PM	#34
mikeayers Zealot Posts: 136 Karma: 432377 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: USA Device: Kindle PW 10thGen, Kobo Clara HD	Slightly OT... Since it's been "BANNED" I went to project gutenberg to get a copy (cause it must be good if it's been banned). Doyle sure wrote a bunch of books.

08-12-2011, 06:51 PM	#35
Hamlet53 Nameless Being	On the face of it I agree that if there is material in A Study in Scarlet that might offend current Mormons, even though the story describes a Mormon Church that no longer exists, it seems alright to just substitute a different Sherlock Holmes novel. Even though I suspect that A Study in Scarlet was selected because it was the first and where the characters were first introduced. As I said “on the face of it.” But where does it end? Should Elmer Gantry be disallowed for its unflattering portrayal of evangelical Christians? To Kill a Mockingbird for its unflattering portrayal of white southerners? Grapes of Wrath for the criticism of large farm owners, banks, and capitalism in general? I bet there are a lot in the Republican Party as it now exists that would say yes to all of these.

08-13-2011, 10:41 AM	#42
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,573 Karma: 204127028 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	I find this* all very silly... a very disturbing, sad, pointless kind of silly. *the actual decision, not the discussion concerning its pointlessness.

08-13-2011, 02:37 PM	#45
carld Wizard Posts: 2,698 Karma: 4748723 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Kindle Paperwhite	Thanks for the clarification. Your post really went over my head, by like a mile.